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To think the anti-lockdown brigade have been proved right?
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Libertaire · 08/12/2021 19:34

We were told that if we all got vaccinated life would return to normal, and that process would be ‘cautious but irreversible’. So we complied. I am triple-jabbed and extremely grateful for the work of the brilliant scientists who made this possible.

Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown. The fear mongering is being ratcheted up day by day. If this was ever about public health, it cannot be now because everyone who is vulnerable to covid has been offered at least two doses of vaccine.

We surrendered our freedoms willingly, to protect ourselves and one another and because we believed that we would get them back. But that isn’t happening, is it? An authoritarian government has confiscated them permanently and we will never get them back until we take them back, which is what anti-lockdown campaigners said from the start. They have been proved right, haven’t they?

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Am I being unreasonable?

AIBU

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onlychildhamster · 08/12/2021 23:08

@PizzaCrust the current trajectory does point to a lockdown I agree. Boris refused to exclude it as a possibility. In politician speak, that means likely to happen so I don't want to say it in case it's held against me in future. There are murmurs and usually that's not a good sign.

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PilesEdgeworth · 08/12/2021 23:08

The point of the previous lockdown was to mitigate against the NHS being overwhelmed, not to eradicate the virus.

By what metric did the previous lockdown ‘not work’?

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PizzaCrust · 08/12/2021 23:10

@Rosebel

It's not a lockdown now. Any bets on what he'll announce on the 17th?
Don't care anyway. I'm triple jabbed so is nearly everyone else I care about so I won't be changing my Christmas plans.
I can't work from home nor can my husband. If Boris thinks it's safe enough for us to go out to work he can fuck right off that I'll avoid my family again (for months on end).

This with bells on. It's absolutely fine for (as much as I loathe the phrase) 'key workers' to go out and work with the general public day in, day out (and in a lot of cases, regardless of their vaccination status and/or mask wearing, with nothing more than a mask and/or a plexi screen to protect them), but it's not okay for people to celebrate what for most people is, the biggest holiday of the year? Especially after the entire fuck up of last year?

That's not even taking into account the fact Boris and his boys club had three piss ups over the Christmas period. Fine for them to all have a giggle while sipping Chandon but absolutely not okay for a family to spend some time together after avoiding each other for most of the year. Not to mention the families who sadly lost loved ones and that being their first Christmas without them.

And even at that, it's fine for (as an example) retail workers to be absolutely rammed for the next few weeks with everyone shopping for Christmas, but as long as they toddle off home on Christmas Eve night and make sure they don't see most of their family, despite legally being able to all have a big meet up in the local Asda for 2 hours with no issues?

It's absolute bollocks.
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Libertaire · 08/12/2021 23:10

It is wise to take a step back and realise that there is a very likely chance, especially with a new variant, that they will pull the plug on gatherings over Christmas once again.

Well, they can try, but it’s highly likely that if they do tens of millions of fully vaccinated people will tell them exactly where to stick their lockdown. Especially as the rules don’t apply to them, of course.

They can’t arrest us all, you know…

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AutomaticMoon · 08/12/2021 23:11

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

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Pensieve · 08/12/2021 23:14

What have I missed that’s been “locked down”? I heard a renewed push for face mask wearing and home working where possible.

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onlychildhamster · 08/12/2021 23:15

And the thing is if there is a lockdown over Christmas, I think most people would comply even if they say they wouldn't now. I mean, there is likely to be some police enforcing the lockdown , the poor would remember the cases where the police fined a carer for eating a sandwich in a parking lot at a beauty spot and they would err on the side of caution because they cant afford the fine. People hosting Christmas dinners might feel awkward hosting large gatherings if getting caught means their guests have to pay fines. Christmases would inevitably become smaller even if not everyone keeps the rules. Christmas parties are currently allowed but we had to cancel my work do due to lack of interest. There isn't even a lockdown now!

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Pensieve · 08/12/2021 23:15

YABU OP to post here since there is a dedicated Corona board for this.

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AutomaticMoon · 08/12/2021 23:15

@skeptile Very well said 😔

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onlychildhamster · 08/12/2021 23:17

@Libertaire that's all very well to say if you can afford the fine but many people can't. I wouldn't meet up with my MIL cos she can't afford the fine and I don't particularly want to pay £400 for her and her daughter in addition to £400 for me and DH.

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PizzaCrust · 08/12/2021 23:18

[quote onlychildhamster]@PizzaCrust the current trajectory does point to a lockdown I agree. Boris refused to exclude it as a possibility. In politician speak, that means likely to happen so I don't want to say it in case it's held against me in future. There are murmurs and usually that's not a good sign.[/quote]
Exactly. Boris fucked up last year by insisting (for however many hours it actually added up to being) that the relaxation period was still going ahead. He might be a buffoon, but he learned his lesson.

I suspect that over the next two weeks, there will be countless articles which really emphasise how terrible the Covid figures are. It acts as a good distraction technique and will worry enough people so by the time the lockdown is announced, he'll hope enough have forgotten about the little party that people will generally comply. I'd hazard a guess that some police patrols and such will be thrown into the mix. Perhaps a curfew, too.

He probably wasn't planning on having to stress everyone out gradually over the course of December (more likely land a last minute bombshell like last year), but he'll certainly have more leg work to do this time. He simply can't announce a lockdown right now. It wouldn't be taken seriously and it would give people far too much time on their hands to arrange protests and their own plans to counteract it.

This will build over the coming weeks.

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PieMistee · 08/12/2021 23:21

@doublemonkey People not getting vaccinated per se haven't caused all the hospital waiting lists but they sure as fuck have made them longer.

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Emerald5hamrock · 08/12/2021 23:21

was just about to post links to the stats about how in Ireland 100% of people dying with covid were vaccinated. You can infer different things from this, eg: are the deaths being counted as ‘with’ covid or ‘due to covid’.
I don't think that information is correct.
The majority of patients in ICU in Ireland are not vaccinated.
The vaccine is working here but 90% of adults are not vaccinated, I think it is 79% DC primary school age have the highest numbers, I have covid now thanks to my primary school children I'm delighted it's mild thanks to the vaccinations.
I suspect the percentage not vaccinated live local. Grin
Low uptake in the area, lots of sick people ATT.

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skeptile · 08/12/2021 23:22

AutomaticMoon yep, we're heading for 95% of over 12s fully vaxxed, yet the premier here in Melbourne keeps frothing about the unvaxxed. He recently said that the feedback from the public he'd had was that people 'don't want to sit next to an unvaccinated person' in the pub. Now there's a robust scientific justification for digital vaccine passports from a political leader.

Apparently here in Melbourne you're not protected by either the high rate of coverage or your own vaccines. Or even the fact that it's summer. Hmm

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howdiditcometothis666 · 08/12/2021 23:23

@onlychildhamster Yep The guy in Wales who was fined £2000 for being away from his home without a reasonable excuse. Wonder how that guy feels reading about the Govt Xmas party.

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onlychildhamster · 08/12/2021 23:24

@PizzaCrust it would probably be shops and restaurants open but people only allowed to meet in groups of 2 outside. No big family gatherings. I forgot what tier this was called but we were stuck in this phase for quite a long time in London. We met family in the woods.

It is so cold this year though.

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Nowayoutonlydown · 08/12/2021 23:24

I think the only thing that has been proven is that we are all expected to follow rules, however they are not the same rules that the rich and powerful are expected to follow.

The management of this virus and the new variants that keep coming isn't a surprise- there's not much that can be done, however I do think its worth being angry about parties that were held for MPs the day after much of the country were told they couldn't see their families at Christmas, that we were all told to socially distance and many people couldn't see the partners who they don't live with, whilst Matt Hancock was having an affair with one of his aides, many people spent Christmas alone last year, but Carries mate was over to help with "childcare" on Christmas.

It's all fucking laughable and makes me feel like the past almost 2 years have been stolen by my family collectively as we have followed the rules that even those who created them didn't give a toss about.

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Domino20 · 08/12/2021 23:24

Your whole premise is based on having believed the people who told you life would return to normal. Why would you have put your faith in the words of a self serving liar? It's fairly widespread/basic knowledge that viruses mutate, my cats need vaccine boosters every year, the flu vaccine is yearly. These are not issues worthy of the ridiculous conspiracy theories that have sprung up around them.

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PizzaCrust · 08/12/2021 23:24

@Libertaire

It is wise to take a step back and realise that there is a very likely chance, especially with a new variant, that they will pull the plug on gatherings over Christmas once again.

Well, they can try, but it’s highly likely that if they do tens of millions of fully vaccinated people will tell them exactly where to stick their lockdown. Especially as the rules don’t apply to them, of course.

They can’t arrest us all, you know…

I wouldn't be so confident on that one.

There will be a lot of work at play over the coming weeks. People generally have very short memories. How many lockdowns did we have last year? And the majority complied, despite saying with each lockdown they'd never do another one again. People complied over Christmas despite how it was taken away with so little notice.

A lot of people cannot afford fines, especially for so many guests as Christmas' usually has. A lot of people are still very worried about Covid, and so the news of a new variant will be frightening to them. The old 'protect the NHS' slogan will be out in full force.

Think about all the government rule breakers from last year. Dominic Cummings, Margaret Ferrier, and so on. There's very little mentioned about them now, isn't there?

A new drama always overshadows old news. It's how things work in the media. And the government have enough time to overshadow the party scandal with something seemingly 'much much worse'.
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doublemonkey · 08/12/2021 23:28

[quote PieMistee]@doublemonkey People not getting vaccinated per se haven't caused all the hospital waiting lists but they sure as fuck have made them longer.[/quote]
That's not true though, is it. Hospital numbers and deaths are going down. There's a massive backlog, nearly two years worth of other medical issues to be dealt with.

This figure won't be reducing, and will continue to grow, because GP's are still not seeing people and it's nearly fucking impossible to get any medical treatment at the moment.

Don't blame healthy people going about their business for NHS winter overcrowding.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2021 23:28

could you please explain to us all why it is that there have been lockdowns in many other countries. Is that all about the NHS as well??

I can't comment about countries of which I have no experience, but venal politicians are hardly exclusive to the UK and I'd be very surprised if those elsewhere don't have something to sell to their cronies, even if it's not a state health system. Generally, where there's advantage to be taken of a population who've been deliberately frightened (see SAGE minutes) then politicians will take it

... there is no evidence to suggest that further (vaccine) doses will make things better

It could well make things better for the pharma companies in terms of pure monetary gain; I assume people have noted what's happened to their share prices since the summer?
And before people start bouncing up and down I'm not suggesting that's their only motivation in this ... simply that it's another example of profits which can be made from Covid

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Janeandjohnny · 08/12/2021 23:30

@LizzieSiddal

Ithrnonoy reason we are having to ace Plan B is because people aren’t getting vaccinated.

Johnson did say once they know if vaccines will work ok with this variant, there will have to be a National conversation about what will happen next.

No, the only reason he introduced this all of a sudden is to divert attention from the christmas party scenario. He was quite happy to have lots of people dying every day up to now. He only wants power, nothing else.
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lisaandalan · 08/12/2021 23:32

The trouble is not everyone has been vaccinated, which is their choice but because of this, the virus will keep mutating and even though the vaccinated will not get as Ill as the unvaccinated, we will keep spreading it around because of the number of non vaccinated it gives the virus chance to keep getting stronger.

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