To think people really need to stop letting strangers live with their children

[PuttingOnTheKitsch]

Yet another child was murdered at the hands of a parent's "partner". There have been many, many cases of this happening, Daniel Pelka, Peter Connelley, Kyra Ishaq, the list is endless.

Yet, there will still be women on here, letting some random man move in with them and their child within six weeks and saying "Am I not allowed to have a life!?" if anyone points out that's a bad idea.

Men are just as bad, the step-parent's board was full of blokes who would dump their children on whichever woman they were seeing, while they carried on with their lives and the step mum would come on here and seethe at the poor behaviour of the children instead of understanding how distressing it must be for a young child to have a dad who foists you off on anyone.

Nobody died from not having a live-in partner.

If we truly want things to change, rather than shaking our fists at social workers, we need to look at ourselves as a wider society and stop expecting different results from the same poor behaviour.

As with pretty much anything on MN people just sit in extremes. What happened in this case was beyond horrific. There is no doubt there were many factors , all of which should never have happened.

The reality is that it is incredibly risky bringing a new partner in. You can't be rational and argue differently. I spent a long time seeing the absolute carnage caused by unhealthy and abusive relationships on children professionally.

However there is a massive middle ground as well. Its too easy to make sweeping statements. It's a bit ignorant. God knows I've seen my fair share of where it goes wrong and the most heart breaking situations. Professionally it was practically my specialism.

However you don't hear about the times it works, the times the parents are responsible. We repeatedly have surprised looks when people find out DP is not DC's biological father. I was very careful to wait until well after 18 months of the relationship and 3 years of knowing him before he met DC. I had quite literally (because there was a professional connection) seen DP's DBS. We just quietly tick along. We have boundaries and systems. We co parent very well with Exdh. As I say the majority of the time it's a surprise to people if they hear DC call DP by his first name and they click.

We rationally made the choice that more children was absolutely not an option due to the effect it would have on DC. However because I do not fit the stereotype of a previously single parent with another partner I rarely if ever get challenged. I present incredibly middle class and it's worth considering that I am fairly sure the picture many of the posters have in their head is not of me but a typified image that they are commenting on. That's not about being concerned that's about judging (rightly and fairly in this particular mothers case)

I dont entirely disagree that the risk factors go up with another partner but its incredibly short sighted to think its the only issue, poor parenting decisions, abusive behaviour in the mother, lack of support, lack of intervention (an issue I deal with heavily Professionally and the obsession with contact above all is ridiculous).

It really does not take too much critical thinking to realise this is a complex issue that cannot be boiled down into a single response. That's an incredibly naive view that shows heavily who has had any real contact with these situations. Be careful the rarified air you breathe is not causing your mind to make broad brush statements.

I think that a lot of women need to spend a lot more time getting to know a man before they actually breed with him

I wasn't personally intending^ to breed, when I did, I was on the pill, but clearly something went wrong, somewhere. Of course I'm glad things worked out how they did, or I wouldn't have ds, but my future approach is to get to know anyone reasonably well, before letting them within 6 ft of me. I've sort of given up for now though. Life is stressful enough as it is atm, without trying to meet people, sorting the wheat from the chaff etc.

My ds will probably never meet anyone I'm dating, unless it's an awkward accident. [I once had a male "friend", call half an hour early, just as ex dp was picking up ds].

I agree abusive men will be after vulnerable women. Do kids now learn about healthy relationships/red flags etc, in school?

Yeah, I agree OP.

An unrelated male is a risk. And when you have people moving in together after relativly short periods of time, there is a good chance it will be a repeated pattern. I babysat one little girl, and though her mother was lovely in many ways and a loving mother, she had issues with failed relationships and moving in with a series of men. I was always worried one would turn out to be an abuser, and it was just really stressful for the kids even when they were nice enough.

Of course she always thought, "this guy is the one" so it;s not like that was the environment she wanted to create.

Maybe one of the reasons society needs social norms about this kind of thing is that there are always some people who mean well but have poor judgement.

@Hoppinggreen

I agree OP. Although there is probably a degree of rose tinted spectacles people who abuse children don’t tend to go from 0-60 overnight. There is that case in Nottingham where the man killed his girlfriend, her 2 children and one of the children’s friends. It’s now been alleged he raped the 11 year old first. I find it very hard to believe that until that point he didn’t raise any concerns at all in that woman’s mind.

Googling the case you mention, I noticed that the suspect is four years younger than the mother. That, and the charge of raping a child seems to tally with what was said upthread about predators forming relationships with mothers who are older than they are in order to access the children.

@AnneElliott

I agree. I honestly don't see why people seem so keen to jump into living together and blending families. Date by all means but why the keenness to live together so quick?

One common reason is money. Housing is so expensive.

Blimey. I’m what I’d consider a bit of fuddy duddy when it comes to relationships but even I know that being married doesn’t mean all is well.

No one said it does?

@KylieKoKo

and the step mum would come on here and seethe at the poor behaviour of the children instead of understanding how distressing it must be for a young child to have a dad who foists you off on anyone.

Yes how dare step mums express any feelings of discomfort ....

I feel like your post is a bit victim blamey. Men who murder their partners children tend to target vulnerable lonely women. Shaming them for their stupidity at moving someone in so quickly isn't exactly helping women like this. They've already lost their child, don't you think that's enough?

I disagree. The victim is first and foremost the child, not the mother. Irrespective of how vulnerable a woman is, she should protect her child because they're even more vulnerable than her.

@MrsBison

An even more unpopular opinion - people need to stick to having children whilst in commited relationships (ideally marriage). And actually taking their vows seriously.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of this post: I do think women are FAR too quick to allow men into their lives and homes without consideration of the lives of the children.

But its naïve in the extreme to think that being married is some sort of gold-plated guarantee against the abuse of children by adults.

Your post also implies that the solution to this is for adults to remain in marriages which cause them distress and unhappiness. As someone who left an abusive marriage mainly to protect my daughter's safety I find that offensive.

I have no idea why this is or what phenomenon causes a person to engage in joint abuse and torture of their own child with another person. But these cases are all far more complex than ‘don’t move a partner in’. Arthur’s father was happy to poison him with salt, starve him and leave him standing in the hallway for 14 hours a day - let’s not pretend he’d have been perfectly safe if only his stepmother hadn’t been on the scene.

I agree, but I think it's quite simple really.

If you are an abusive, potential child murdering bastard and you get a new partner who is a shit to your child, you're not going to care very much or maybe you'd even be happy - someone who validates the abuse I dole out to my child.

Whereas any normal person if they started dating someone who was vile to their child, would break up with that person quick sharp.

Likewise if you are a normal healthy person and start dating someone who you discover is vile and abusive to their own child, you'd leave them and maybe even report them to social services.

Whereas if you're a vile child murdering piece of shit, and you get into a relationship with someone who is horrible to their child it's not going to put you off them, is it? Again you'd probably be pleased you have a scapegoat.

So, again. Nothing to do with being a stepparent or having a new partner, everything to do with being a shit abusive parent in the first place.

And ANY partner can be abusive. From a "good family", with a good job, church going. These things are not a predictor of safety.

Agree that speed and urgency in a relationship is a red flag. But that is not the primary problem.

@MrsBison

An even more unpopular opinion - people need to stick to having children whilst in commited relationships (ideally marriage). And actually taking their vows seriously.

Agree.

There was a case also in the news this week of a 2 year old murdered by her mums new partner when she left her in his care. He had been previously violent and they had split up and got back together. He murdered her in her high chair and then took 15 mins to call an ambulance and tried to say she fell out of the chair but they were able to prove she was in the chair. I don't think poor Arthur stood a chance with the family he was born into. But I just can't stop thinking about leaving your child with a person you know to be violent and you also someone you haven't known long. Not only that but surely violence like that escalates, you don't go from being a normal calm person to literally murdering a toddler in her high chair in the space of 5 minutes, surely there were signs and I just can't get my head round why she was left in his care. Both these cases have stuck with me this week for different reasons, the poor boy because of the failures in the social care system and the way he was failed so badly, and this other little girl because this man should not have been in her life, and the tribute her mum posted after she died and the fact she faced no charges at all seems to suggest she loved and cared for her very much so I just can't comprehend how she ended up in that situation, it's just so awfully sad.

@MrsBison

An even more unpopular opinion - people need to stick to having children whilst in commited relationships (ideally marriage). And actually taking their vows seriously.

I took my vows very seriously. He fucked my best mate behind my back for 2 years.

At what point should I have kicked him out?

This report is over five years old. NONE of the suggestions made by Women's Aid to improve the safety of children after separation have been carried out, as far as I am aware. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them have gone backwards.

It's harrowing reading. Even the title is awful.

www.womensaid.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Child-First-Nineteen-Child-Homicides-Report.pdf

I think the point is that many parents are not protective of their children to start with. You find people commonly who do not like their own children too much and therefore are not so worried if they are victimised, or they actually ignore their kids saying they are mistreated by their partner.

The last issue is very common, mothers not believing their children, and declaring them wicked etc. The man works on the mother and eventually they get them to mistreat and abuse their own children. And it goes the other way. A neglectful parent can become a directly, abusive one with a controlling partner.

Just saw this thread and as a single parent I totally agree with OP. I won't live with a partner until DD is older/moves out. Like PP I wouldn't force her to live with a strange man just because I fancy it. Another unpopular view - lots of parents are selfish and don't put their kids first.

I totally agree with you OP. As a SW working in child protection it's unbelievable how many women cannot be single. Some have
6 children by 6 fathers, as soon as 1 bloke moves out another moves in. I think the age of dating sites and social media makes it easier to 'meet' men.
They enter one abusive relationship after another and the children are neglected and suffer horrendous emotional abuse.
Most of them in fairness have suffered the same in their own childhoods. The cycle just repeats itself generation after generation.

@BertieBotts

Sort of...

And in this case I think the dad clearly was an abusive arsehole under his own steam.

But on the point about women moving men in too quickly: a lot of this is attributable to the fact that women are endlessly told that they not a fully functioning adult unless they are in a relationship with a man.

So many women have been socialised to believe that they are inadequate if unmarried. Still so much stigma about single mothers. Clearly this is no excuse to allow a man to be abusive towards your children.

But if women were encouraged to believe they can do a good job of caring for children alone following the breakdown of a relationship, as opposed to being made to feel that they have failed because the relationship has broken down, they might be more inclined to build a stable home without a man, or at least until they are comfortable that a man can add to the home in a supportive way.

You see so many posts from women who have clearly moved a man in too quickly and are now uncomfortable with the relationship the man has with their children, or where there is friction. But they bulldoze on with it and say their motivation was "I wanted to create a new family" or words to that effect.

A strong, loving single mother with children is a perfectly good family. Often a better family than a blended scenario roping in a bunch of kids who don't know each other and don't particularly want to live together.

Its often more expensive, and certainly more difficult, for a woman to run a household alone. But until a man has demonstrated himself beyond doubt as being worthy of the children, its always the best option.

I'm not always opposed to blended families: I've known instances where its worked really well. But there should always be a very threshold for establishing one and a very long period of time should elapse before partners are moved in.

@Dentistlakes

I agree. People are too quick to put their own needs over their children’s. I know many won’t agree but there’s no way I would move a new partner into the family home.

This. So many people are selfish

I don't disagree, thepeopleversuswork, I am just tired of the woman-blaming stance. Yes it would be great if we could empower women to throw off these tired old stereotypes about relationships. I know MN Relationships board really helped me to do that.

She was in prison I'm not sure "letting" is the right language here.

And your blended family view points are very 1950s. I survived my natural parents by being taken off them - but I don't suppose all biological parents are a feckless waste of space!. Utterly offensive to suppose every step is inherently cruel and evil. Watch less Disney and pay more attention to the real world.

And as a fostered child. That's blended. So you'd all stop that happening because of your one marriage for life stance. Right.

@BertieBotts

I totally agree. But people tipping up to bleat on about how the solution to this is this problem is simply for everyone to get and stay married is not helpful.

Women need to be empowered to feel that they should always put themselves and their children first without involving men. Providing them with the financial support (if necessary) and emotional confidence to do this is a much better solution than encouraging them to stay in doomed or abusive marriages.

I digress slightly but it really winds me up when this is always laid at the door of single mothers.

[quote Newmumatlast]@gettheflockoutofhere Tustin won't be out in 12 years. She has a life sentence with a minimum of 29 years before eligible for parole. She would then need to convince a parole board that she is suitable for release. Some prisoners with that sentence never get out. Others do but not after minimum term usually.[/quote]
Oh good!

What about the step dad's that step up and enrich a child's life?