To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

[Lividlavidacoco]

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

If the issue is having a penis in the room I am assuming that no children with a penis can attend either?

I would be fuming and I think it’s awful. As other PP have said I would email back and try to be as polite as possible but challenge this

Just tell her, "oh it's ok, he doesn't have one. See you next week"

Wow, this is awful OP

You are not a vagina so should’ve be addressed as one, he is presumably not a penis, she sounds like a cunt though.

At first I thought it was a breastfeeding group and I was about to say YABU. But it’s not, it’s a baby music group. I’m 100% in favour of female safe spaces but a baby music group isn’t one of them.

I attended a couple of similar baby music/play groups when I was on maternity leave and although it was mainly mums there were always some dads there - sometimes taking shared parental leave, sometimes giving the mum a break for an hour, sometimes the mum was doing a KIT day, sometimes they had a day off work, sometimes because the mum was back at work. It was absolutely normal and no one batted an eyelid.

And it’s also incredibly counterproductive for working women if men are made to feel unwelcome in spaces for parents/young children.

What if your husband was a widower? Would he be excluded from the group then too for inconveniently not having a living wife?

I'm absolutely appalled at this e-mail and agree with previous posters that the e-mail should be screenshotted and shared to their social media/Google page. I'd also inform your local midwife/health visitor about the discriminatory nature of this group so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to send other parents their way.

I'm shocked - my DDs are now 25 and 30 and there were occasions all that time ago when DH took one of them to baby music sessions, toddler group etc etc where there may well have been breastfeeding Mums. Times clearly haven't moved on on this occasion. As for referring to him by his genitals - don't get me started!

Yeah this is fucking shocking
I hope the franchise overrule her

What if he identified as a woman?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Referring to his penis is actually the only option that gender ideologists have left anyone. You can't say 'we don't want a man' or 'a group for mums' and it mean anything if the words man and mum now have no shared meaning. Genuinely I think this is the sort of ridiculousness which gender ideologists are promoting. As someone else said though, I am totally behind female only spaces and am genuinely scared to be living in a world which no longer offers them - but this group should not be female only.

Yes. This is the result of what the trans ideology has caused, this is the backlash. Women right now are absolutely terrified and literally truly afraid for our lives and safety. This is the result. The sad thing is, on this occasion, the group leader and the women who complained are the ones in the wrong.

It's all such a mess, and I truly feel for OP and her DH.

Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment

Seriously warped group of women, sorry, vaginas!

I'm all for protecting single-sex services but a baby and parent music group is not such. Excluding fathers from such activities is not going to help women. Encouraging men to play a more active role in the care of babies and young children is beneficial to women.

Write back and say that you are shocked at the open sexual discrimination in what was clearly advertised as a group for parents and babies and that you find her referring to your husband as 'a penis' to be deeply insulting and offensive. I'm guessing that she runs this group at a community venue so complain to them too and send them a copy of her email.

Shocking

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I also support female safe spaces, but I don’t think a music group is one of them.

This is my take on this.

I am horrified by this, please take this to the papers/SM. I would never suggest this ordinarily but this is outrageous!

How dare they refer to your husband as a ‘penis’? WTAF? And to sexualise breast feeding is a step too far, if the female attendees are that uncomfortable with breastfeeding in public then they should express or cover up.

I can’t believe what I have read, is this really where we are in 2021?

That’s so offensive omg. Can you imagine the uproar if it was men complaining about a ‘vagina’ being present?? I can’t believe she had the nerve to send the email tbh

What in the actual fuckity fuck, who refers to a father as a ‘penis’

What if he identified as a woman?

That is exactly the kind of nonsense that has driven the business owner to refer to him as a "penis in the group" rather than a man.

@Thankyo

Did he get his penis out in the group environment? If so, YABU. If not, that is a very weirdly written email!

This!

Your poor DH. That email is so offensive and so upsetting - I'd be gutted.

Definitely name and shame on social media. Or just post the email without comment and a couple of shocked face emojis.

@TheRigatonini

Is the use of the word penis trans related? Ie she’s inclusive of trans men? Or something?

The opposite, it's the sort of language often used to describe transwomen on the feminst forum and other places that don't include transwomen in their feminism. Lots of talk about penises in changing rooms and bathrooms etc. I'd bet money on the woman running the group, or the woman who made the complaint, very very much not being inclusive of transpeople.

OP, that email is horrific. I rarely use social media but I'd be tempted in this case.

There were often men present at the baby groups I attended, and they were welcomed. Women will never have anything approaching equality if men are discouraged from taking a full role in raising their children.

I am actually horrified she has sent that email!!

Your poor DH, I would tell him but carefully. It is unusual in my experience to find men at these groups but WHY NOT?!?

what an awful woman

This is truly outrageous and needs to be tackled head on. an email back asking where it says ‘mums’ or ‘women’ only in any of the advertising/promotions etc and if nowhere to be found aka if there is a plan to make it so. If not there is no reason for DH to be excluded and your child made to miss out. And to refer to DH as she did is disgusting. Someone running a business making money from providing activities for babies and toddlers should have their interests at heart and she clearly doesn’t!

This woman actually wrote “ having a penis in the room”? That’s appalling, and discriminatory. Imagine the uproar if a man described a woman as a vagina in the room.
I’d not only complain but name and shame the place.

There’s a WhatsApp group for the mums in the mums and babies group. A lot of those mums also go to baby music class so I’m half tempted to ask if anyone complained about DH at group and ask why no one mentioned it would be a problem for them when I talked about it a couple of weeks ago when I said I was going back to work.

Breastfeeding group meets tomorrow though so I’m worried if I say something it will then be the main topic of conversation and I’ll make it worse for DH.