To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

[Lividlavidacoco]

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

This is unbelievable

Utterly dreadful. I'd be fuming, both about the sex discrimination and the wording! Referring to your husband as a "penis" is just fucking bizarre.

If it’s a chain she should have followed the procedures they set. She is not allowed to break the law to suit her and a complaint to head office may mean she loses the franchise altogether.

Safe and inclusive.

But not inclusive if you’re a ‘penis’

I’d be furious too. Absolutely outrageous. Please challenge it. I’d even take it a step further and try and speak to the person above, if there is one

I actually hope this gets picked up my the Daily Fail and Thai woman is outed as a complete and utter dick.

Your poor dh

This is shocking - there’s so much I want to say but I’m a bit

Why does your DH get referred to as a “penis” but the complainers are “mummies”?

Oh and I would put money on the fact that this gets picked up by the papers and on this occasion I would be glad

I'd be tempted to send an email back saying dh has expressed discomfort at all the tits out in the room and maybe they might like to breastfeed elsewhere in future?

In all seriousness though, it doesn't sound like the kind of place where your husband is going to make friends and enjoy chatting to other people. They sound very cliquey and have obviously decided they don't want him there. Hopefully he can find somewhere else he and your baby can both enjoy, and any breastfeeding women there are more than happy for him to attend.

Discrimination Act 2019. Ask her if she would have said the same to a trans woman. You could take her to court for this, she could lose her business entirely.

Jesus Christ! Referring to someone by their genitals is hateful - can you imagine someone saying ‘we’d rather not have a vagina in the room’, and limiting parents to ‘breastfeeding mummies’ is setting the cause of equal parenting back to the Stone Age. Is your town in the 1950s??

I would wait till you have calmed down to write a devastating email to the franchise head. But it is absolutely appalling and hateful.

That's really sad for you DH! My daughter goes to a music baby group, and has done since she was tiny (also a franchise... Wonder if its the same one) and there has always been dad's that take their children, my husband has been a few times too and has always been made to feel welcome.

Having dad's in the group can only be a good thing surely, otherwise we're peddling the idea that women are the primary parent and the bulk of child rearing is down to women, which is something so many of us are trying to move away from.

The terminology used is beyond inappropriate and how she read that back and still thought it was appropriate to send is baffling, definitely raise this with the head office! Could he drive to the next town for groups? As shit as it is, is he likely to be made to feel comfortable there now? Also check church hall notice boards, loads of them have baby and toddler playgroups which are advertised only on there.

Who owns the venue.

If local authority / church etc I would complain to them.
They may reconsider their choice to rent to someone displaying such blatant sexual discrimination.

It’s completely discriminatory!
I would write back saying how disappointed you feel in their attitude to parents. If it’s a franchise, I would make an official discrimination complaint.
If I was your husband, I would definitely be looking further afield to find another music grow to group so your son doesn’t miss out on the fun.

I think this sort of attitude could partly be an unfortunate side effect of the whole trans trans/self ID debate. There has been so much discussion about resisting biological men trying to get into women’s spaces that sadly some women have just blurred the line and now feel entitled to bar men from any spaces they want, even if not strictly female only spaces.

Wow. Yes firstly referring to another parent/ dad/ male as a penis (still in shock at that alone) but also...,

Are you telling me that none of these breastfeeding mums ever do so in a cafe/ park/public place where there is usually a mix of parents and genders of people in general. Have we not moved on at all? My last breastfed 14 years ago and I feel that we were miles ahead of this sort of attitude even then.

If your DH was doing anything that others thought was inappropriate then that's understandable that that individual might want to subtly bring it up with you or your DH - but this feels completely wrong and unacceptable (plus also, 'penis' again)

I would actually fight this allllll the way and find out if legally she can discriminate like this! I am not one to pander to people’s delicate sensibilities usually and I HATE the erosion of women’s rights but that is NOT what is happening here it’s offensive and discriminatory nothing less not to mention unkind! Your poor DH will be mortified, the breast feeding group is the place for the focus to be on that, if he’s behaving appropriately then it’s their issue not your DH,s it’s an hour or so long either toughen up ‘breast owners’ or time the feeds better if you aren’t comfortable!

OP, this is awful.

I completed a brief training programme this morning on bullying and harassment. This is actually harassment and is illegal, as they are discriminating against your husband due to his gender. This is very interesting reading:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/harassment/

Please let us know how you get on.

The focus on the ‘penis’ bit immediately made me think of gender discussions.

@Suzanne999

This woman actually wrote “ having a penis in the room”? That’s appalling, and discriminatory. Imagine the uproar if a man described a woman as a vagina in the room. I’d not only complain but name and shame the place.

@Suzanne999 But see that's the problem. Unfortunately males, transwomen and TRAs DO refer to women as that, and call us 'uterus havers' and 'menstruaters', and have done for a long time. So I suggest the group leader's wording is a push back against that.

That's the damage this whole thing has done. Women are tired of being called 'pregnant people', 'vagina havers', 'uterus havers', 'cervix havers' and 'menstruators'. Hence the push back referring to men the same way. It's not right, but the anger at how women are being treated and referred to is palpable, and understandable. The email is driven by that anger. But in this case, the email writer is very wrong and needs to be called out on it.

Also just spotted that you've said it is a franchise and you are writing to head office. Good. Tell them that if there isn't a suitable remedy then you will be posting the evidence on social media, contacting the local press and potentially your MP.

Of course the sad thing is that even though she has probably trashed her reputation she has achieved what she wanted. There is absolutely no way my DP/DH and baby would be setting foot in that group ever again.

@Mapletreelane

OP, this is awful.

I completed a brief training programme this morning on bullying and harassment. This is actually harassment and is illegal, as they are discriminating against your husband due to his gender. This is very interesting reading:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/harassment/

Please let us know how you get on.

Discriminating due to his SEX.

Not "gender".

@ClaudiaJ1

She didn't refer to him as a "penis haver", though. Just a penis. It's utterly bizarre.

@MrsSkylerWhite

dexterslockedintheshedagain

I'd be furious!
Your DH might be the only 'penis' in the group, but there seems to be more than one dick....”

👏👏👏👏

Spot on

Why did your husband have his penis out in the music class ? Or was it that he wasn’t really keeping time with it properly. Couldn’t they let him just have a drum stick next time ?

What idiots !!!!