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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do Sad

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:
Lifewith · 01/12/2021 20:33

@freezingtoes12

Why is the leader sexualising breast feeding? Why else would they be uncomfortable? Do they think a man gets off?

Absolute dick!

This is true.
StealthPolarBear · 01/12/2021 20:33

@Fetchthevet

A penis? A penis in the group? Is this how we are supposed to refer to men now? You are right to be angry OP.
No, seems men and men and the rest are uterus havers. In the name of inclusivity.
FortunesFave · 01/12/2021 20:34

What a twat she sounds! A penis!

PinkWednesdays · 01/12/2021 20:34

That is ridiculous. Is it part of a franchise, that maybe you can raise it with someone more senior?

FortunesFave · 01/12/2021 20:34

And "breastfeeding mummies"

WTF? Blech.

BotterMon · 01/12/2021 20:34

That's vile. And to take her email literally it would also exclude all male babies.

FFS who are these people who are so precious?

BashfulClam · 01/12/2021 20:35

Wow, they weren’t shy of a penis around a year ago!

ivykaty44 · 01/12/2021 20:35

can you imagine the uproar if a vagina was excluded from a parent and child group due to all the other members being male and uncomfortable

Catfog · 01/12/2021 20:35

Cripes that is awful, if it was a breastfeeding support group then yes sure, but a music group Confused. There were a few men (presuming dad's but maybe nannies or whatever) at groups when DS was a baby, no one seemed to be arsed, in a good way.

Watapalava · 01/12/2021 20:36

I would 100% be sharing that online

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/12/2021 20:36

Objectifying people and reducing them to their genitalia and/or bodily functions is never a good look.

It's clear to see where this objection has come from. There's a good deal of debate - much of it incendiary - about men trying to insinuate themselves into women's spaces. Some of the objections are more than justified - as this certainly isn't - and as a result resistance from women has hardened significantly over the last few years. It's one of the most divisive issues I've seen happen in my lifetime.

Had this been the breastfeeding group I'd have sided with the sender, albeit her inflammatory use of language is offensive and unnecessary whatever I might think of her stance. If I object to being called a 'cervix-haver' or 'person with a vagina', then there is no way I'd refer to another human being as a 'penis'.

But this is a music group, not a protected space in which women and babies are naked or vulnerable. I find her attitude appalling.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 01/12/2021 20:36

Referring to his penis is actually the only option that gender ideologists have left anyone. You can't say 'we don't want a man' or 'a group for mums' and it mean anything if the words man and mum now have no shared meaning. Genuinely I think this is the sort of ridiculousness which gender ideologists are promoting. As someone else said though, I am totally behind female only spaces and am genuinely scared to be living in a world which no longer offers them - but this group should not be female only.

ICalledYouLastNightFromGlasgow · 01/12/2021 20:37

I would be RAGING.

Do the women not breastfeed in cafes etc? Give it to her with both barrels. I think you need to find a more diverse place to live.

user3193 · 01/12/2021 20:37

@dexterslockedintheshedagain

I'd be furious! Your DH might be the only 'penis' in the group, but there seems to be more than one dick....
Please just respond with this!
DrSbaitso · 01/12/2021 20:38

🤔

Funnylittlefloozie · 01/12/2021 20:38

I'm virulently in favour of keeping women's spaces for women only but this is NOT one of those spaces. It s a space for babies. No-one is getting undressed, and breastfeeding is hardly waving boobs around madly is it?

Shade17 · 01/12/2021 20:39

Time to absolutely fucking destroy her and her business.

Pallisers · 01/12/2021 20:40

I'd be tempted to write back "actually there was an unfortunate accident shortly after baby's birth (food processors can have hidden dangers!) so he no longer has a penis. He's looking forward to seeing you all next week"

Honestly, sad as it is, I suspect this is not the group for him even without the discrimination. "breastfeeding mummies" and "a penis" I can't imagine him finding a kindred spirit among those fools.

JetRocket · 01/12/2021 20:40

You are completely right…obviously. That’s a hideous email and horrid to exclude your DH.

All I will say is that it’s the other mums to blame not the class owner. They’re over a barrel as their income and livelihood relies on lots of attendees coming. The class owner will always side with the majority because being morally or politically correct doesn’t pay their mortgage. It would be very different if it were a large company would could absorb a small loss in the interests of ethics.

TooWicked · 01/12/2021 20:40

The email is shocking.

But as a business owner I assume she would rather lose the custom of one person (your DH) than however many of the mums who were not comfortable with his presence.

And I think (thought I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that she has every right to now change her terms and conditions or reinvent the group to make it a female only space - especially if she throws in the wording "a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies (vom)".

The scarcity of baby groups in your area means she's got pretty much a captive audience and she can probably afford to do this and her business won't suffer.

Would your DH consider setting up a 'dads and baby' group?

Original poster
Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:41

Re-reading, I think the reference to her as a small business is basically trying to say to me that she’s rather exclude DH than lose her customer base. As I say it’s a small town, most of the mums in that group attend the other groups as well so word would spread quickly.

It’s just bizarre. It is a franchise so I will be raising it with the head office which I’ve found an email for on the website. I’ll email the leader back first though and give her a chance to correct it after I put forward my argument..

OP posts:
Bigassbeebuzzbuzz · 01/12/2021 20:41

Unless he was waving his penis about I dont see what difference it makes who took your dc there.
I dont get this most people want breast feeding to be more accepted everywhere yet want blocks on who can be there.
I understand some women might be uncomfortable breathing in public at first but surely doing it where only 1 strange man is is better to boost their confidence in breast feeding around others.

ClaudiaJ1 · 01/12/2021 20:41

@Hollyhead

Oh this is simple, email back telling her actually she identifies as a woman and therefore is female and so she’s being transphobic.
Oh don't do that, that 'transphobic' bs is what has STARTED all this. It seems to me that in the wake of www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4412984-A-woman-driven-out-of-her-therapy-group-by-a-trans-womans-presence and www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4412987-AIBU-to-think-there-is-nowhere-women-can-feel-truly-safe , my guess is the woman who wrote the email is livid about what happened to Sarah and the situation has blown over the last week, leaving women understandably absolutely fking furious and desperate to hold on to our spaces and make a point, BUT the group leader has forgotten that they run a MUSIC group, not a 'mothers' group. Feelings and tensions are running very high right now, women are feeling very vulnerable and are lashing out everywhere, no doubt the women who complained were spurred on by what happened to Sarah. Please don't take it personally, women are desperately scared and angry right now and are lashing out. On this occasion, they wrongly believe they can keep a father out of a music group.

I would definitely email the group leader and say it's a music group, it has never been advertised as a woman's only group, and you'd like to know where it says it is woman only.

How you explain this all to your DH, I don't know. I think you'd need to explain to him what has happened in the last week, that may make him understand a little more and not feel so offended. BUT for him to be excluded from a children's (not woman's) music group is wrong and you should challenge it.

The sad thing is, this is the very result of the trans push, and the really sad thing is, none of this women's doing. Your DH is unfortunately caught up in this crossfire.

nopuppiesallowed · 01/12/2021 20:41

In our mums and tots group, men are very welcome. Personally, I think it's good for small children to have men in the group as balance.

freddiethegreat · 01/12/2021 20:41

No worries, Mrs Music Lady, fortunately DH was accidentally castrated during one of my postnatal hormonal rages, so he can still come along. Sadly, DS wasn’t, so I guess I’ll take him to work with me. DH says he’s looking forward to seeing you next week.