To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

[Lividlavidacoco]

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

Yes he’s going to go back. It’s totally water off a ducks back to him he’s completely not bothered! Even without the reply from the leader he’d have kept going. In his words ‘what’s she going to do, chop it off at the door??’

At least he knows he has an ally in the other mum who messaged you. I can't stand the "let's all be girls together" stupidness.

Knowing he actually does have some support there (Hi and well done to the mum who has stood up to the 'mean girl' it's a tough thing to do)! Would he be open to going again? If they have enjoyed it up until now, and now that maybe a few other mums are aware, it might be somewhere he can get some help and support too. I would have had no issue with men at any classes they went to, apart from one designed solely to assist with breast feeding, and think that a range of people and experiences is great when it comes to babies. Some of my the friends I'm in touch with most are dads who did all the kinder and school pickups, and we will at times all go for coffee, because everyone is there for the same reason/ trying to do the best with and for their kids.

Maybe he should ask if there is a special cupboard he can store his penis in before he walks into the class......

I am glad you got it sorted OP and fair play to the poster on here. I still think that the organiser was way out of line in the wording of her email to you and the lack of any real apology in her reply.

Next time I saw her I would want to ask her "so are you sorry for what you did or are you sorry that you were called out on it and had to backtrack".

Your DH is a star! He had a great attitude!

The 'reading' mum is a star too 💐☕️

The 'complainer' is pathetic & nasty lying bitch.

I'm glad you're happy, but I wouldn't be. SHE still referred to him as a penis and would STILL exclude him from the group IF the original complaint was genuine. She can't see she would still have been wrong.

Nice that there's only one stupid woman objecting to a boy in her girls group & not several of them.

Leader is a still a twat though & I'd still be very tempted to send all the messages to HO.

I hope DH goes to coffee after next week!!

Also, the Dads Group being a bugger thing would be great, as there will be other men locally being SAHD's who don't have any kind of support network & no social groups for their DC.

Glad that the organiser has seen sense after her bonkers email.

One of my friends went back to work while her husband took on the childcare. He was an asset to our various parent and baby groups. BF aside, he had the same concerns as the rest of us about caring for a baby. Him being there didn't change most topics of conversation. It's sad that one mum made your husband feel unwelcome and good for you for standing up for him.

Thanks all. I've had a message from a couple of other mums on whatsapp (helloooo ) also sharing their support. DH thinks he's famous and keeps singing 'Remember my name FAME' (the only bit of the song he remembers) at DS who clearly thinks this is hilarious. I popped in to the kitchen for a coffee (im working from the dining room) and they were dancing around, DS compleyely naked using a teatowel for some sort of dance of the 7 veils so I've left them to it. Who needs baby music group when you've got an Alexa and a teatowel??

Honestly regardless of who made the complaint, not taking being accountable for sending the email and using that kind of VERY divisive language still implies that this musics teacher reeks of prejudice. She is just throwing the other mother under the bus instead of being an adult and admitting that she was a dick.
I genuinely think that you do need to send this to head office @Lividlavidacoco.
I also think that rallying as many men as possible to this class (and all the others) is a fab idea or she will start advertising them for “uterus havers”.

Another way of dealing with this would have been DH to identify as female, but with a lady penis.

30 years ago I used to go to softplay with my 2 year old, and a breastfed baby. There were no men there. There were complaints about me breastfeeding while there, which I did discreetly shoved baby up my jumper.

This was brought to my attention by one of the leisure centre staff, who told me their complaint, and said there was a small room where I could go to feed DD. I said I didn't want to go to another room to breastfeed.

It was good to have a private room for those who wanted to breastfeed on their own, I suppose. I did persude him that it was not mandatory to feed when noone else is there.

I think I did go on feeding in the softplay area, though I don't really remember.

Disgusting to refer to him as a penis. I'd be sending a strongly worded email back and telling DH not to bother going again.

@CounsellorTroi

And it wasn’t a trans issue after all.

No, the OP's issue was not a Trans issue.

BUT the discussion about women-only spaces is at the heart of the Trans issue, and discussion on this thread looked at the status of women-only spaces, the need, the specific nature of the space, the legality etc.

And referring to people by their reproductive organs is a Trans issue and it is relevant to that debate how many posters were outraged by 'penis'. And a heads up as to how common this phenomenon is - as a result of the trans debate.

And...posters don't really get to police how the discussion develops on a thread. It usually happens on a long thread.

I'd be replacing the tea towel before doing the drying up....

OP I think you need to link this thread into the WhatsApp group so all the mums can read it first hand, and see how the nasty, prejudiced and lying mum implicated them in her lie that there were several people "uncomfortable" with your DH being there, when in fact she's just an unpleasant piece of work.

What exactly is her problem - is it a man trying to do good shared parenting, or a man in what she sees as a "women's space", or just general misandry?

Hopefully she ends up ostracised from the group and leaves. Nobody needs that sort of negative undercurrent around.

While she’s a poisoned apple, the owner of the business didn’t think too hard before trying to cut off the “penis”, did she? They are working together. The WhatsApp group AND head office.

@Lividlavidacoco

Also worth mentioning - now I know which mum complained it makes total sense. I don’t know whether to leave it or whether to have a word.

I'd leave it - she's outted herself as a complete fucking arsehole to a baby music group, and worse still she lied to get her own way. And now most of the parents know. That's enough to soften her cough and hopefully the humiliation should send her elsewhere. How despicable do you have to be to lie like that over fucking coffee. Fruit cake.

What a lovely outcome!
But how silly of the leader to not check up on how everyone felt before going off half cocked (pun intended) and creating this situation!

We had a similar situation at one of our playgroups - ONE mum saw fit to bitch about the dad that came sometimes - the rest of us told her to wind her neck in because he was fine, wasn't causing any issues and fit in pretty well with the rest of us. This one mum thought he must be a "pervert" to hang around with a bunch of women - nope.

[turns out he was actually gay, but closeted at the time - it made SO MUCH SENSE when he came out!]

Glad you got a reply

But the fact still stands she called your dh a penis

Not emailing to say sorry no men due to bf mums

I wonder what her response would be if you told this woman your husband is a hermaphrodite? 🤔

@WhiteStevieWonder I think tbh a lot of it is just down to common courtesy rather than having to have a complete rule book of what is and isn't right.
In the OP example, her dh should absolutely have been able to go. Women shutting men out of baby groups only supports the patriarchy and gives men no room for being able to override stereotypical views that only the woman should stay at home with the dc.

A man at a breastfeeding group though?
I'm not convinced men have much to learn or gain from attending one and it's fairly common knowledge that many women (not all) are uncomfortable breastfeeding directly in front of men and hope that they can avoid men at least somewhere (not everywhere of course) so it would be nice to think that there will remain specific women only breastfeeding safe groups available that are man free as well as some that welcome men so as to give women (as after all this is who is directly affected by it) the choice.

@Lividlavidacoco ah so happy to see the update. maybe the leader should consider kicking out the other mum for causing a disturbance. I am glad some of the other mum's had your DH's back. he has just as much right to be there as any other parent and referring to him as his genitals is just demeaning and horrific. Hopefully the leader has learnt her lesson.

Also tell your DH he sounds like an awesome person and an amazing dad. loving the dance of 7 veils and not letting the world get to him. Tell him to keep it up and that he is deff a keeper.

Ok so you've had a half hearted apology but nowhere has she apologised for the term in which she referred to your DH and the fact that she was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate.
Your H sounds like he's thick skinned and like he had a good sense of humour which is good in this situation but there's a lot of people out there who would have been extremely offended and hurt and rightly so. She shouldn't get away with this IMO i would still complain to HO but that's your call

Excellent. I do hope that horrid complaining woman feels uncomfortable. What a horrible thing to make up, just because she didn't want him at the after group coffee.
Hope he gets invited now (and goes!)
And I agree with the pp who said about referring to the women, he could breeze in with a cheesy smile, and a cheery "hello, vaginas!l Whilst looking directly at her, obviously!

Glad it's been sorted. What a mean thing to do. Your DH sounds like an amazing dad.

Oh my god! Wow!!
That is absolutely disgusting!
I take it penis babies aren't allowed either....
I would seriously call her out on that one!