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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:

imonlyhooman · 03/12/2021 05:09

A great response @Lividlavidacoco Please let us know when you receive a reply.

User5252727 · 03/12/2021 06:00

[quote ClaudiaJ1]**@User5252727* because lots of us on mumsnet avoid that board like the plague because it's so toxic, and don't want it seeping in and detailing other threads like has happened to this OP.*

So you admit you have no interested in women's rights and consider feminism 'toxic' and would rather stick your head in the sand regarding what's going on? Easier to do than face reality, right? That board is the least toxic of all of this site.

And considering the very real impact of the erosion of women's rights and spaces has on us all, and affects every day life, it has already 'seeped' into other threads by sheer necessity.

If arguing for women's basic human rights is 'toxic' to you, why don't you go to another site where you can remain blissfully in denial? I for one, will make people aware at every opportunity, regardless of the section of the site. You should care enough to take an interest. It's no longer an option for women (or for men) to opt out of the discussion.[/quote]
I consider the way trans rights are debated on mumsnet to be profoundly toxic.

I don't consider the entirety of feminism to be toxic, much as I can see you're enjoying your puffed up outrage at the suggestion. I don't even consider the anti-trans movement to be feminist at all.

I certainly think aspects of feminism can be deeply toxic - the profoundly damaging impact of 'white feminism' on women of colour, for instance.

I don't believe that just because someone else labels what they're doing (excluding trans folk / harming women of colour in pursuit of goals that benefit white womens) 'feminism' I'm required to support it when I believe it's actively harmful to women.

I'm not going to respond any further because it's hypocritical of me to debate the trans issue on OP's thread when I've criticised you all for derailing it with this debate. Go and start a thread in the feminism section complaining about me if you've got more spleen to vent.

ClaudiaJ1 · 03/12/2021 06:15

@User5252727 I consider the way trans rights are debated on mumsnet to be profoundly toxic.

It is about women's rights, not trans rights. But I can see that women's basic human rights don't concern you at all. I figured that from your first post on here. It simply proves my point about toxic masculinity and how dangerous misogynists/TRAs are to women's safety. Excluding 'trans folk' is not harmful to women. But I suppose you think not excluding trans folk from from a woman's rape survivor's group is 'not harmful' to women.

MumInBrussels · 03/12/2021 06:24

[quote ClaudiaJ1]**@User5252727* I consider the way trans rights are debated on mumsnet to be profoundly toxic.*

ClaudiaJ1 · 03/12/2021 06:25

@MumInBrussels I was replying to another poster's comment.

skodadoda · 03/12/2021 07:17

@ClaudiaJ1 what does ‘haver’ mean? Do you mean a Scottish dialect word defined as:
‘To talk nonsense, gibberish; to speak rubbish’. How very apt!

ClaudiaJ1 · 03/12/2021 07:23

[quote skodadoda]@ClaudiaJ1 what does ‘haver’ mean? Do you mean a Scottish dialect word defined as:
‘To talk nonsense, gibberish; to speak rubbish’. How very apt![/quote]
@skodadoda I'm not the one who coined the term 'haver', Trans Activists did with their 'uterus haver', 'vagina haver' labels for women. Take it up with them.

Original poster

Lividlavidacoco · 03/12/2021 08:18

I got a reply but there’s some context and it’s lovely, it really is.

So I got a message from one of the other mums who found me through the mums and babies whatsapp group. She messaged to say she’d seen this post and put 2 and 2 together because she’d been on another group chat when one of the mums was complaining about DH being at group and said she was going to contact the leader. However, her original outrage at DH’s presence had nothing to do with breastfeeding! She was annoyed because they all go for coffee after and she felt awkward not inviting DH but didn’t want him there So, she put this complaint in (in her words) to ‘make the group girls only again’ (alright, motherhoods answer to Nigel Farage )

Anyway, none of that matters because this other mum has also emailed the leader and told her what’s gone on and expressed her own outrage at everything.

The reply I got last night was:

‘Hi Livid,

Please ignore my email, I’m sorry this has happened and Mr Livid and DS are welcome to attend group as before. I have been made aware that the complaint wasn’t genuine and doesn’t represent the feelings of the majority of the group as I was led to believe. I’m sorry for any offence caused’.

I’m happy with that and thank you thank you thank you thank you to the lovely mum who had DH’s back - I know you’re reading!!

OP posts:

ShirleyPhallus · 03/12/2021 08:20

That’s a nice reply and I’m glad you got the resolution you wanted but I hope she feels like a prize plant by referring to him as “a penis”

Pottedpalm · 03/12/2021 08:20

I see women breastfeeding in restaurants, parks, on trains, in droves in coffee shops.. and rightly so. There are usually men present. Those who wish might opt to cover up a little, many don’t. If the group is not marketed as ‘mummies only’ (yuk), then why should men be excluded?
As for referring to your DH as a penis… words fail me!

ShirleyPhallus · 03/12/2021 08:21

*plank

Roominmyhouse · 03/12/2021 08:22

OP can your DH get some of the other dads to go along with him to the class? Show strength in numbers and see if anyone is brave enough to say anything to them?

I thought your response was excellent by the way!

Pottedpalm · 03/12/2021 08:22

Missed the update, sorry.
She might have apologised for referring to him as a penis, though!

Roominmyhouse · 03/12/2021 08:23

Oh just seen the update. That’s good!

evtheria · 03/12/2021 08:24

WOW. Did not see that coming, I’ll be honest. Very pleased for Mr Livid, though I’d hope the woman who complained has the grace to apologise.

Trixiefirecracker · 03/12/2021 08:24

That’s a great reply but doesn’t really tackle her choice of words, if you excuse the pun. Hopefully she realises referring to your DH that way is unacceptable.

Original poster

Lividlavidacoco · 03/12/2021 08:25

Also worth mentioning - now I know which mum complained it makes total sense. I don’t know whether to leave it or whether to have a word.

OP posts:

WorriedGiraffe · 03/12/2021 08:27

I’d have a word personally, she was incredibly mean! Is your DH going to go back to the group? Not sure I could after being referred to a penis, but I hope he has the confidence to.

MyOtherProfile · 03/12/2021 08:28

So glad this has been resolved. So the complaining mum did it just to get out if including dad in a coffee trip? That's just nasty.

Original poster

Lividlavidacoco · 03/12/2021 08:28

The ‘penis’ comment will have definitely been the language the mum used now I know who she is. No doubt. Not sure why the leader saw fit to repeat it but there you go!

OP posts:

Original poster

Lividlavidacoco · 03/12/2021 08:29

@WorriedGiraffe

I’d have a word personally, she was incredibly mean! Is your DH going to go back to the group? Not sure I could after being referred to a penis, but I hope he has the confidence to.

Yes he’s going to go back. It’s totally water off a ducks back to him he’s completely not bothered! Even without the reply from the leader he’d have kept going. In his words ‘what’s she going to do, chop it off at the door??’

OP posts:

Theflamingnerd · 03/12/2021 08:30

@Lividlavidacoco

I got a reply but there’s some context and it’s lovely, it really is.

Anyway, none of that matters because this other mum has also emailed the leader and told her what’s gone on and expressed her own outrage at everything.

The reply I got last night was:

‘Hi Livid,

I’m happy with that and thank you thank you thank you thank you to the lovely mum who had DH’s back - I know you’re reading!!

So glad you got the response you wanted, and glad the organiser backtracked instead of doubling down. Might have been nice to see her apologise for the language she used, but small victories eh?

What a prize twat that other mum is. Such cliquey and mean girl behaviour! Who's to to say DH even wanted to have coffee with her after? And how does his presence prevent the others from having "girls coffee & chat" after? We should be encouraging dad's to attend the appropriate baby classes - if they can't attend surely it would put them off wanting to share the burden of raising the child? I say he should get his dad mates to go along next time, put the nasty woman in her place.

I'm so glad one of the other mums had yours & DH's back - hello whoever you are 👋

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 03/12/2021 08:30

I'm glad it's been resolved but the organiser clearly has no idea about running a business/service with customers. Even if the original complaint was genuine, it doesn't matter as it wasn't a women's only group. Plus the use of language and how quickly she was jumping to the complainants tune.

BlowDryRat · 03/12/2021 08:31

@Lividlavidacoco

Also worth mentioning - now I know which mum complained it makes total sense. I don’t know whether to leave it or whether to have a word.

Send her a box of chocolate chocolate penis sweets?

Okbye · 03/12/2021 08:31

Does she refer to the baby boys taking part in the music group as ‘penises’ as well?!

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