Annoyed by my friends comment tonight...

[Tomato345]

My best friend of 11 years and I occasionally have our disagreements but I love her like a sister, however a comment she made tonight has really pissed me off and has made her look like a snob imo.

We were with our kids, talking about different careers as we've both recently changed jobs, when her eldest son announced that he wanted to be a bin man when he's older. Friend turned to him and said "aim a little higher please" and started laughing. I made a comment about how bin men earn a pretty decent wage (in our area at least) and that the perks of working for the council, such as weekends off/decent pension etc are good. She was adamant that it's a shit job and that the only reason someone would do it is if they didn't have any qualifications. It certainly came across that she would be embarrassed if her son ever becomes one.

Her reaction was the same last year when her partner showed an interest in becoming a HGV driver, so it's not the first time this has happened. I'm not sure why it's got my back up, maybe because I use to be a delivery driver and now I work for a cleaning company, so I'm wondering what she thinks of me as I would say those types of jobs are linked. We both only want the best for our kids at the end of the day, but what's wrong with it if it makes someone happy and provides them a living? Perhaps I could understand her point if she was earning mega bucks herself, but she earns minimum wage, which is actually less than what a bin man earns...

A job is a job in my eyes, but I'm not sure if I'm being sensitive or not. After all, we're all allowed to have an opinion... so AIBU?

I’d rather my child was a happy bin man than an unhappy doctor.
Absolutely nothing wrong with any kind of aspiration and to an eight year old a bin man is a very exciting job, the lorry, where does the rubbish go, what happens when it’s full etc. There are also perks/crap bits as there are in any role.

I’m with you op, and there’s definitely an air of snobbery in some posts on here. But surprising really.

@BlokeHereInPeace

Surely the correct course of action here would be to encourage the 8 year old to prepare for his career by picking up any rubbish on the floor and putting it in the bin...

I remember trying that when my pre-schooler was in his 'awed by bin lorries' phase and his childminder had to arrange the school run (on foot) around a posse of small children who just wanted to stand and admire and wave at the guys it never took off.

It’s a shit job, aim higher

Living in a grammar school area you see this when kids say they want to go to the ‘normal’ high school and not do the 11 plus. The amount of flustered parents stammering ‘oh but you must want to go to grammar school, come on little Jimmy, you are doing your 11 plus don’t be silly!’ Funny how everyone thinks their kid is a dead cert for the 11 plus then end up paying for tutoring from year 3.

Another thing that annoys me about this is there are kids out there with learning disabilities, brain injury, SEN etc for who managing a part time job at McD’s (or as a bin man or similar job, being outdoors and not needing to sit at a desk dealing with written language or need very sophisticated communication skills can be ideal for some kids needs) is literally a massive achievement and their parents are beyond proud of them managing to get a bus to a ‘shit ’ job three times a week and earn some money. People should have a think - there but for the grace of god and all that. Or are those parents somehow failures, and your kids only going in to medicine or law is the only sign of decent parenting??

@Blueeyedgirl21

Another thing that annoys me about this is there are kids out there with learning disabilities, brain injury, SEN etc for who managing a part time job at McD’s (or as a bin man or similar job, being outdoors and not needing to sit at a desk dealing with written language or need very sophisticated communication skills can be ideal for some kids needs) is literally a massive achievement and their parents are beyond proud of them managing to get a bus to a ‘shit ’ job three times a week and earn some money. People should have a think - there but for the grace of god and all that. Or are those parents somehow failures, and your kids only going in to medicine or law is the only sign of decent parenting??

I would assume their parents would also want them to aim high though. Isn’t that what this thread is about? It’s all relative

The child in question is only 8 years old.. so if they aren't really old enough to know what they want to do in life then why is there a need for a snobby comment? Unless it was a joke? A lot of little kids have a fascination with lorries and things like that and i'm sure a lot of them say worse jobs when asked that kind of question and probably would give you a different answer every week.. I wouldn't take it so seriously unless they're old enough to actually know what they aspire to be. Hell, why not buy them a bin man uniform to make their day. bit of a different story if the child is in secondary school or doing GCSEs.

@RedHot22 what if that’s not what the kids want though? Maybe some of them might want a stress-free job with decent hours and an easy life. Who has the right to tell them they are wrong for wanting these things?

@RedHot22 yes I agree aiming high is all relative. But should we not be aware that all sorts of things can happen and we shouldn’t base our worth as parents or our kids worth on what they might earn or ‘achieve’. At the end of the day for some people managing to support their child achieving a single qualification is a big thing and ‘achievement’ to me is non linear.

I agree with your friend, sorry OP.

My eldest is really clever but her aspiration is to be a hairdresser. I am actively trying to suggest other careers that i think would play to her talents and give her a great paycheck. DH tells me i should let her follow her passion as it worked out for him. I have told him he is the only person i know who truly loves their job AND gets paid handsomely to do it.

My reason being, today's world is bloody hard enough without being on minimum wage!! House prices are ridiculous, so is everything else - fuel, energy, food.

Do i want her still living at home when she's 40 because she can't afford to move out or do any fun activities etc all because she wasted her natural talents and now earns the same amount an hour as a large starbucks coffee costs?? Er, no thanks.

I had friends that were sooooo bright, could have done anything! They ended up dosing during teenage years and now live near the breadline.

Plus, speaking as someone who did do minimum wage jobs early on, many of those jobs involve unsociable hours, weekend working etc and deal with the public face to face who are absolute c*s most of the time.

I want better for my children. Equally, it's possible to wish that for them whilst not looking down on others who do those jobs.

I don't know, a well paid job with guaranteed hours that involves exercise that I can finish and go home without worrying about, no one calling me in the evenings or on holiday... doesn't sound that bad to me! I'm a project manager, it's a well thought of career but the stress and juggling is unreal sometimes.

My cousin was a bin man for a while, he loved it. Helped him buy his first house at a young age.

How can posters seriously be simultaneously saying that they don’t believe they’re above bin men yet they want their children to aim higher? If you’re not above them, how can something be higher?

To the PP whose son is a bin man, you’re right to be proud of him. We’d all be up shit creek without bin men. They’re worth their weight in gold.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

How can posters seriously be simultaneously saying that they don’t believe they’re above bin men yet they want their children to aim higher? If you’re not above them, how can something be higher?

To the PP whose son is a bin man, you’re right to be proud of him. We’d all be up shit creek without bin men. They’re worth their weight in gold.

Couldn't agree more. The cognitive dissonance here is really weird.

This thread has inspired me to give our bin men a generous Christmas tip.
I didn’t realise people were so snobbish about such an important job!

@HyphenCobra

I agree with your friend, sorry OP.

My eldest is really clever but her aspiration is to be a hairdresser. I am actively trying to suggest other careers that i think would play to her talents and give her a great paycheck. DH tells me i should let her follow her passion as it worked out for him. I have told him he is the only person i know who truly loves their job AND gets paid handsomely to do it.

My reason being, today's world is bloody hard enough without being on minimum wage!! House prices are ridiculous, so is everything else - fuel, energy, food.

Do i want her still living at home when she's 40 because she can't afford to move out or do any fun activities etc all because she wasted her natural talents and now earns the same amount an hour as a large starbucks coffee costs?? Er, no thanks.

I had friends that were sooooo bright, could have done anything! They ended up dosing during teenage years and now live near the breadline.

Plus, speaking as someone who did do minimum wage jobs early on, many of those jobs involve unsociable hours, weekend working etc and deal with the public face to face who are absolute c*s most of the time.

I want better for my children. Equally, it's possible to wish that for them whilst not looking down on others who do those jobs.

Well, for starters, I agree you should let her follow her passion.

But also, being a hairdresser doesn't necessarily mean she'll be on minimum wage/living at home when she's 40.
She could get into something really exciting and perhaps lucrative and/or offering lots of opportunities for travel and living overseas (working in film/telly/personal styling etc)
She could be the next Daniel Field or Rita Rusk; eminently respected
and looked up to.

Is anyone else reading this thread with the recent thread about how the OP struggled to comprehend huge salaries in mind? One poster said on that thread that if it were Dadsnet, people would be piling on asking for tips on how to progress & increase their salaries rather than apologising for being a high earner. What is wrong with exploring options & encouraging aspiration? Surely we should all be encouraging & supporting others to maximise their potential in whatever form, eg someone might start off as a bin man and choose to progress to management and then on to starting their own refuse disposal company.

In my view we should focus on ensuring children learn the skills they need to maximise their potential and consider all of their career options (including what lifestyle implications they might have), rather than limiting their options.

@HyphenCobra

I agree with your friend, sorry OP.

My eldest is really clever but her aspiration is to be a hairdresser. I am actively trying to suggest other careers that i think would play to her talents and give her a great paycheck. DH tells me i should let her follow her passion as it worked out for him. I have told him he is the only person i know who truly loves their job AND gets paid handsomely to do it.

My reason being, today's world is bloody hard enough without being on minimum wage!! House prices are ridiculous, so is everything else - fuel, energy, food.

Do i want her still living at home when she's 40 because she can't afford to move out or do any fun activities etc all because she wasted her natural talents and now earns the same amount an hour as a large starbucks coffee costs?? Er, no thanks.

I had friends that were sooooo bright, could have done anything! They ended up dosing during teenage years and now live near the breadline.

Plus, speaking as someone who did do minimum wage jobs early on, many of those jobs involve unsociable hours, weekend working etc and deal with the public face to face who are absolute c*s most of the time.

I want better for my children. Equally, it's possible to wish that for them whilst not looking down on others who do those jobs.

I can't help but think you're not seeing the wood for the tree here @HyphenCobra

Hairdressers use their brains a lot more than you're giving them credit for and if she enjoys it and is good at it, why would you want her not to do it?
Even if she only does it for a few years after leaving school, I'd say learning a trade like hairdressing is invaluable. It's a trade, that means she'll never be out of work, whether working for a top salon or doing small mobile work to local people, she will always have that skill in her back pocket.

I'm about as far from a snob as you could get, but bin man would not be my first choice of occupation for my DS. Its not being snobby to say that objectively its not the most pleasant job in the world. Its cold, its dirty and its smelly, and I'd be surprised if apart from the money, many people really love doing it. If my DS was making an informed decision I'd obviously be supportive, but it wouldn't stop me from hoping he'd choose something he may find more enjoyable/rewarding. Not sure where she's coming from with the HGV thing though other than as you say, snobbery.

@IntermittentParps

Yes i guess she could, but realistically?? Ummm, don't think so 😂😂😂 Just like my youngest who wants to be an actor!

I have no problem with her having a passion on the side, but actually having a well paid career as a main job

[quote HyphenCobra]@IntermittentParps

Yes i guess she could, but realistically?? Ummm, don't think so 😂😂😂 Just like my youngest who wants to be an actor!

I have no problem with her having a passion on the side, but actually having a well paid career as a main job[/quote]
That's a bit sad.
I wish your DD all the best and I hope she's happy and fulfilled.

I also think that many people who know the reality of living long term on minimum wage might hope their children could enjoy the benefits a higher income can bring.

@MattDillonsEyebrows yes it's a trade/skill. If she wanted it as a part time job to see her through uni that's fine. But it's hard work, being on your feet all day, having a sore throat but still needing to make conversation with clients, working long hours and every weekend. It's maybe fine when you're young, but not as you age and certainly not if you have physical health conditions.

I think nowadays there's way too much propaganda being spread about how we can all do whatever we want and be happy. But actually life is far more complex than that nowadays, and everything is so much more expensive. You have to make sensible choices if you want to have the most options available to you in life.

My DH was extremely lucky his passion led to a six figure salary. I very much doubt being a hairdresser would lead my daughter to the same financial outcome.

@5128gap

I also think that many people who know the reality of living long term on minimum wage might hope their children could enjoy the benefits a higher income can bring.

Completely agree @5128gap

I've had the life of minimum wage, the life of a very good salary in a service industry and a good salary in a non service industry.

My work life balance and prospects were best in the non service industry. I got the most money in the service industry but had to sacrifice all bank holiday's etc so when i started a family i became miserable doing that. The minimum wage job was bloody dismal as always stressed about money.

I want my children to not have to deal with the challenges i had to.

@IntermittentParps Thanks don't need your pity 😂

I think it's great if your children can LOVE their job. But equally they need to be able to provide financially for themselves without help from a man or their parents. That's life. And tbh how many people truly LOVE their job?? And also are able to be financially dependant from doing said amazing job?

What i find sad is that we expect young children to have to KNOW what they want to do for the rest of their lives and make decisions based on this that will potentially impact them massively for ever more. I made decisions i thought were best when i was younger and then realised I'd need to change career path - which is VERY challenging when you are mid thirties with children and a mortgage.

What would be better would be if university etc etc was the norm for people in their later twenties once they'd had a chance to have a bit of life experience first. As that's not the case, i have to try to impart my life lessons onto my children and hope for the best.

Obviously if they chose to go on and do minimum wage jobs etc i have no control over that. But as a parent i definitely want the best for them and in my opinion, that'sa careerwhich pays well and has great prospects.

Chances are a bin man will be retired at 60 with a nice pension to boot