Annoyed by my friends comment tonight...

[Tomato345]

My best friend of 11 years and I occasionally have our disagreements but I love her like a sister, however a comment she made tonight has really pissed me off and has made her look like a snob imo.

We were with our kids, talking about different careers as we've both recently changed jobs, when her eldest son announced that he wanted to be a bin man when he's older. Friend turned to him and said "aim a little higher please" and started laughing. I made a comment about how bin men earn a pretty decent wage (in our area at least) and that the perks of working for the council, such as weekends off/decent pension etc are good. She was adamant that it's a shit job and that the only reason someone would do it is if they didn't have any qualifications. It certainly came across that she would be embarrassed if her son ever becomes one.

Her reaction was the same last year when her partner showed an interest in becoming a HGV driver, so it's not the first time this has happened. I'm not sure why it's got my back up, maybe because I use to be a delivery driver and now I work for a cleaning company, so I'm wondering what she thinks of me as I would say those types of jobs are linked. We both only want the best for our kids at the end of the day, but what's wrong with it if it makes someone happy and provides them a living? Perhaps I could understand her point if she was earning mega bucks herself, but she earns minimum wage, which is actually less than what a bin man earns...

A job is a job in my eyes, but I'm not sure if I'm being sensitive or not. After all, we're all allowed to have an opinion... so AIBU?

@Teatoast00

Chances are a bin man will be retired at 60 with a nice pension to boot

Why do you think they will retired at 60. You only get the big pensions in the public sector if you get the big salaries.

But hairdressers can become business owners, open chains of stores, employ others. They aren't all working down at the local shop on the corner doing blue rinses for £5. Almost every job can lead to other things if the person doing it has the ambition and to push themselves. I have a friend who is a hairdresser and a very successful business owner with two award-winning salons.

The important thing is to instil a passion and zest for life and learning in your child, not push them towards careers that you think are a good idea. People with passion and drive and the support of the people around them are more likely to excel in whatever their chosen path is. People without won't. You can lead a horse to water ...

[quote HyphenCobra]@IntermittentParps Thanks don't need your pity 😂

I think it's great if your children can LOVE their job. But equally they need to be able to provide financially for themselves without help from a man or their parents. That's life. And tbh how many people truly LOVE their job?? And also are able to be financially dependant from doing said amazing job?

What i find sad is that we expect young children to have to KNOW what they want to do for the rest of their lives and make decisions based on this that will potentially impact them massively for ever more. I made decisions i thought were best when i was younger and then realised I'd need to change career path - which is VERY challenging when you are mid thirties with children and a mortgage.

What would be better would be if university etc etc was the norm for people in their later twenties once they'd had a chance to have a bit of life experience first. As that's not the case, i have to try to impart my life lessons onto my children and hope for the best.

Obviously if they chose to go on and do minimum wage jobs etc i have no control over that. But as a parent i definitely want the best for them and in my opinion, that'sa careerwhich pays well and has great prospects.[/quote]
Well, I find it sad that you want for your daughter what is best in your own opinion, rather than her passion.

My cousin was a "bin man" for a couple of years. She always said she really enjoyed it. Lots of excercise, relatively well paid, started and finished early so had the rest of the day to enjoy.

I doubt there any many employed by local councils nowadays though - don't most councils subcontract work like this?

I think there's a lot of romanticising going on with regards to the less desirable low paid jobs. Its the who cares about money if you're happy cheery road sweeper trope. The reality is that few people who know first hand what it's like to do the dirty, cold, unpleasant, invisible and thankless jobs in society for minimum wage want their children to have to do them if they have a choice. Suggesting you would be delighted with it for your child, assuming they had other options, demonstrates either a naivety as to the reality, or a misguided (and somewhat insulting to those who have to do them and hate it) attempt to pretend these jobs are more desirable than they are.

YABU

it's snobby to want your child to have a professional or vocational job with decent pay.

I know it probably did sound snobby but I would hope my children would want to aim higher than a refuse collector. I have no problem with the job at all and I'm sure they are paid well but it's hardly a pleasant job, lobbing rubbish around, early starts, freezing cold weather, hard physical labour, not very much career progression (I would imagine- I have no idea!)
You sound a bit chippy.

@Blueeyedgirl21

As for the ‘sewer man’ comments, my friend manages a waste water treatment site and is on big bucks, she has a very very comfortable life, working in water treatment can be lucrative so nothing to look down on. You can even be a lawyer for water companies

Oh, I wasn't being snobby Blueeyedgirl21. Sewage treatment is a vital job and one that seems impossibly glamorous to a 6 year old!

I was just making a point that children's interests/aspirations will change massively over 15-20 years, from wearing big wellies to being stuck behind a desk (and in reverse order too).

Someone who has been a bin man for 40 years will have a decent LGPS pension at 60. Yes, it's not megabucks and would be reduced as paid early but still the option of a nice lump sum and annual pension, better than a lot of jobs. I used to work in public sector pensions for 5 years and it is common, suppose as job is quite physically intensive.

Retail and hospitality are MUCH worse than refuse collector as there's so little autonomy and you have to work face to face with the nobhead public

Yep.
And my BIL has been a bin man all his life. He has just retired at 50.

My son wants to have a shop where he gives everything away for free, a museum man (as he calls it lol) and a librarian.

I just want my kids to be happy and I'd rather they were a refuse collector than on the dole!

I scrubbed shit off toilet walls in a nursing home for money when I was a student, I didn't care, I was earning my own money!

@MattDillonsEyebrows yes it's a trade/skill. If she wanted it as a part time job to see her through uni that's fine. But it's hard work, being on your feet all day, having a sore throat but still needing to make conversation with clients, working long hours and every weekend. It's maybe fine when you're young, but not as you age and certainly not if you have physical health conditions.

Wow, hairdressers must have a tough time in the UK! I know plenty of older hairdressers, who have done the job their whole life, and don't seem to be suffering. Hairdressers here don't work longer hours than anyone else, they might work Saturdays but have another week day off in lieu. If they have a sore throat they take a sick day like anyone else.

I feel sorry for children of parents who place "expectations" on them career-wise, and as I said in an earlier post, there are many miserable people working in jobs they hate due to that - but hey, the money's good so what else matters? As long as someone else's children are prepared to do the jobs too lowly for yours then all is rosy.

@ClaudiaJ1

I don’t think it’s a lack of technology, I think it’s that UK road are thinner and windier than residential Australian roads. The automated bin collectors would not work on my road at all. It’d just get stuck.
Of course, I could be wrong and we could just be embarrassingly trailing behind Australian groundbreaking bin technology.

[quote gofg]**@MattDillonsEyebrows yes it's a trade/skill. If she wanted it as a part time job to see her through uni that's fine. But it's hard work, being on your feet all day, having a sore throat but still needing to make conversation with clients, working long hours and every weekend. It's maybe fine when you're young, but not as you age and certainly not if you have physical health conditions.

Wow, hairdressers must have a tough time in the UK! I know plenty of older hairdressers, who have done the job their whole life, and don't seem to be suffering. Hairdressers here don't work longer hours than anyone else, they might work Saturdays but have another week day off in lieu. If they have a sore throat they take a sick day like anyone else.

I feel sorry for children of parents who place "expectations" on them career-wise, and as I said in an earlier post, there are many miserable people working in jobs they hate due to that - but hey, the money's good so what else matters? As long as someone else's children are prepared to do the jobs too lowly for yours then all is rosy.[/quote]
@gofg
This was a reply so I think it was meant for @HyphenCobra not me.

Public sector pension
Public sector salary
Skilled job if driving
Transferable skills- they use a lot of communication skills and IT, teamwork

@5128gap

I think there's a lot of romanticising going on with regards to the less desirable low paid jobs. Its the who cares about money if you're happy cheery road sweeper trope. The reality is that few people who know first hand what it's like to do the dirty, cold, unpleasant, invisible and thankless jobs in society for minimum wage want their children to have to do them if they have a choice. Suggesting you would be delighted with it for your child, assuming they had other options, demonstrates either a naivety as to the reality, or a misguided (and somewhat insulting to those who have to do them and hate it) attempt to pretend these jobs are more desirable than they are.

This.

My middle class friends, when my son was failing badly at school, were dismissive when I said I was worried he just wanted to work in a building site like his Dad.

They would never in a million years let their darlings even not go to a Russell Group University. It was a painful reminder that to then I was their token poor background person.

I genuinely want be dc to be ok. I think wanting them to be ‘happy’ is a big ask, and I’m not sure if that’s realistic. Yes I would be ok with them doing whatever as long as they were ok in themselves and it was an informed decision, not something they’d fallen into out of desperation.

Its not worth getting het up about op. Fwiw i agree with you but at the same time i can see her point too.certainly wouldnt think less of her.

YANBU in my view, but I always think parents need to find out WHY their child is attracted to a particular job. If you understand why it's attractive, you can help them look at other jobs that might offer similar elements.

Funnily enough I had this conversation with my S17 the other day and I told him I’d quite happily let him be a bin man if that’s what he wanted to do. He likes working outside and isn’t good at talking to people so it would suit him also the pay is actually really good!

Everyone has different preferences and desires when it comes to what they want from a job, and so a ‘shit job’ can only ever be one person’s opinion.

Personally I read some threads on here about stressful office jobs with non-stop emails and expectations of working evenings, weekends etc and to me these are ‘shit jobs’. You couldn’t pay me enough to do them. Equally I can’t stand driving so any job that involved driving would be a ‘shit job’.

For some people being a bin man would be a shit job, for others it wouldn’t be. I think the most important thing is for someone to be true to their actual desires and preferences, rather than pursue a career or job that society has for whatever reason seemed to be aspirational.

YANBU…I hate snobbery about jobs. More people would die if we got rid of refuse collectors than they would if we got rid of brain surgeons. That said if if she wants to be a snob when speaking to her own kids then I guess that’s her choice. If she said it to your child then it would definitely be worth challenging

my hubbys a driver on the bins (so yeh he is a bin man), best job he's had works 6 until 12 at the latest 2if he does overtime which is double pay.
bank holidays triple pay and day in lieu same over Xmas, best paid job he's had and he loves it, I love that he's. home early everyday and no weekends loads of quality time, my daughters a paramedic and earns no where near the same which I find disgusting tbh they deserve so much more

Class 2 recycling service driver earns £38k in SE Surrey and Class 2 driver for Veolia (waste management) earns between 28-40k for 4 day week of 9.5 hour days.

It looks like you’re probably more concerned about what she really thinks about your job and the possibility that she looks down on you.