AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

@KwestTurkey

I'm not taking anything out on parents I've simply asked if they should get priority over non parents when employers are looking at annual leave.

I am a parent by the way.

Parents should get priority because they have less flexibility. If this isn't taken into account they will just take unpaid leave etc which is worse for everyone (especially the employer). This is not a sociological issue it is a commercial one - employers will do what is necessary to reduce absences and the risk of claims. The problem is working in small organisations where it matters who gets leave when. If people have a major problem with it they should go to a larger employer and problem solved.

Legally parents have no priority for their choice of holidays. Employers (quite rightly) would risk a discrimination claim.

Way it tends to work where I work is that us childless folk (well not me anymore) would work Christmas and then would get new year off, I never minded, it wasn’t something the boss put in place but something we put in place as colleagues. I’ve never felt the need to take Summer holidays off so never been a problem in that sense.

I liked working over Christmas, was quiet and we are allowed to go home super early most of the time so would have been a waste of holiday 😁

@VashtaNerada

I also find the reasoning “well you chose to have children” laughable. Reproduction is a fairly basic part of humanity, and without it the species is fucked. It’s not like it’s some mad hobby a few of us have chosen on a whim. We’ll all need the next generation when we’re old FFS!

We would be fucked if everyone did it too. Some would argue we already are. And nobody does it “for the greater good” as a pp pointed out, but because they wanted to.

No, I don't think that people with children should have priority, if you go into a job that runs 24/7/365 then you expect to work weekends, bank holidays and Christmas.
I did my fair share when my DD was small and now I'm happy to swap/negotiate for those who have small children around Christmas Eve/day morning, I have family too and would like to see them at some point over Christmas, I've spent a couple on my own because of work commitments when DD was small and with family, it's the way it goes if you are in a job like that.
We put our requests in and they're looked at and compared against last year to ensure that it's not the same people working Christmas over and over. Not that some don't try it on......

@Kanaloa the nursery my DD goes to shuts for 2 weeks over Christmas exactly following the school holidays. Her CM also closes over Christmas but doesn't follow the school holidays.

We both take time off over Christmas anyway, but luckily have family and friends who could look after her if we couldn't. School is going to be more of a problem as half-term dates vary around the country.

I’m confused by your description of the unfairness? The parents had already booked the summer off when you submitted your request because they had ‘first dibs’. Well that’s what first come first served means??
Carers (of any dependent) have additional rights in the workplace and that is as it should be.
I don’t personally have a problem booking time outside school holidays. The best weather is in June and there are few kids around, that suits me and many others! There’s give and take and I wouldn’t ask for school holidays unless there was a specific reason to do so and in that case it comes down to holiday booking policy. If your work place doesn’t have one then yes complain

@AndMatt

The school holidays are basically the whole summer, by the time schools go back in Sept, the nights are drawing in. DH always needed some time in summer because he was a cadet instructor and wanted to take other people's kids away, DF needed school holidays because he was married to a teacher...

The rules should apply equally to everyone IMO and no one person should get to book all their holidays until everyone has had the opportunity to book at least 2 weeks

August has generally been more shit weather wise than June or July, or even late September for years!

I agree everyone should have a fair crack at Xmas but I would love to have the flex to go on holiday in other months when it is cheaper. As others have said I don’t really understand, outside of Xmas, why anyone would choose to travel when places are busier and more expensive unless they have to.

I think generally speaking then yes they should have preference over someone who doesnt have DC TBH. Especially in the Summer.My DH always got his request in August hols ,as no one else wanted to be off then! Christmas a little different .Most people have children and its unrealistic to say you chose to have them so suck it up sort of thing .Maybe every other year or something .

But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off!
DP and I don't have kids and are both freelance/self-employed. We often take time off at Christmas and in the summer holiday period, because a) he sometimes works with schools and b) they're the only times of year when work quiets down for me.
Believe me, ideally I'd go on holidays when places weren't packed with kids too, but often we don't have that much choice.

My mum was a teacher when I was a kid and my dad worked in retail and often couldn't get time off in school hols (obviously the only time my mum COULD go away!) because others with kids had grabbed all the school hols time. Which meant my family missed out. That's hardly fair when my mum spent her time teaching their kids the rest of the year.
I don't think time off should be first come first served, though, or it just becomes an arms race. It should be fairly rota-ed.

@Finknottlesnewt

I am an actual fully grown adult female mammal. It is literally in my DNA (and that of all females of every species ) to reproduce.. it's a thing called 'biology'

Yes there are people who choose to buck biological functions.. that is the beauty of 'higher functioning' mammals...but in the main. We reproduce. If we didn't there would be no more pensions, and we (the childless by choice ) would have no one to support us and we would need to be working until we die in our late 80s ...

I think it is the least we can do -
To support the people who have kids ..
They support me..

What a load of rubbish.

The parents had already booked the summer off when you submitted your request because they had ‘first dibs’. Well that’s what first come first served means??

No, what used to happen was if you got there with your request first you'd get told no because "Sarah and Kate will need to be off then with the kids" before they'd even booked it. It was just a given that you would not be allowed the time off over the summer regardless of whether you asked first.

• Mittenmob I work somewhere where we are often asked to stay until 6 as standard. I used to get so annoyed by my colleagues with DC who managed to avoid this leaving all the 'late' shifts to the childfree ruining our evenings. But I've since grown up, had dc of my own and realised me not getting to slump on the sofa an hour earlier/go to the gym is a hell of a lot different to a parent having to juggle multiple pick ups, child minders, kids bedtimes etc. Ideally childcare would be available and accessible but it's just not always the case and many collegues assume that people have an army of family members supporting them. I don't!*

What a sanctimonious post. Implying that you don’t grow up until you’ve had kids. And that whatever childfree people choose to do with their free time it’s less important than parenting.

As a non parent I always volunteered to cover on call over Christmas on the basis that my colleagues who were parents would cover New Years. I know this doesn't work for everyone but worked well in our team. I was the last non parent and now on maternity leave so not sure how that'll work when I am back next year!
I do generally agree that parents shouldn't necessarily have preferential treatment but doesn't mean you can't come to an agreement. A bit of understanding doesn't hurt anyone I guess.

I find it ridiculous when people with no school age children take school holidays off bar Christmas. Longing to holiday in June and early September bring it on!

Maybe every other year or something
People without children can 'maybe' spend Christmas/summer hols how and with whom they want every other year? How magnanimous of you.
What about people with no children but nieces/nephews etc who they want to see? Or ageing parents? Or people who in an ideal world WOULD have children but for sad reasons don't have them?

When I was at uni I worked at a coffee shop. My uni was hours away from where my family home was. At Christmas I would always get slagged off for taking annual leave between Xmas and new year - "Sea doesn't have kids so why is she even taking time off she doesn't need it" they didn't care that if I stayed in my uni city I'd be spending Xmas alone in my uni house. 10 years later and it still makes me so angry.

@MsTSwift

I find it ridiculous when people with no school age children take school holidays off bar Christmas. Longing to holiday in June and early September bring it on!

So I'm 'ridiculous' I'll say again, what if people are without school-age children not through choice? Or have other reasons for wanting/needing that time off?

We also had people who got every Christmas Eve/Christmas Day/Boxing Day off. Their children got a bit older and they did two Christmases, then GRANDKIDS and they couldn't possibly miss their first Christmas...or their second...then on their third they were starting to realise what Christmas is so couldn't miss that.

The problem is working in small organisations where it matters who gets leave when. If people have a major problem with it they should go to a larger employer and problem solved.

Well yes, if you can't organise childcare while you work, you do need to look for another job. Not expect colleagues to even it out.

And employers won't be held over a barrel by parents threatening unpaid leave. You do realise unpaid leave isn't an endless well you can pull from, don't you.

I used to manage a large admin team. We
are closed Xmas day and all the bank hols, but Xmas eve and the days between Xmas and New year were obviously still very popular.

Deal was I would issue a spreadsheet in early Nov, asking everyone to work with their immediate teammates to work out who would take what days off to leave us with 50 % cover each day. If they couldn't agree then they were just to put what days they would like to have off, and if we had enough cover overall across all the teams then it still might be OK. Once all worked out and approved it could go in the holiday system.

Mostly worked fine, other than one woman who every year used to put the whole christmas break into the holiday system months early, with a long waffly explanation about how she had young children and she needed the whole time off to make it magical, and they wouldn't be young forever etc etc. She had a husband whose workplace shut down for 2 weeks so no childcare issues!

So every year I would reject her request in the system and tell her to wait like everyone else, and every year she would kick off, and go on and on to her colleagues about how it was unfair and she HAD to have the time off because she is a MUM and children need their mum at Christmas (two of her colleagues had even younger children, one was a single mum and the other one's husband worked away a lot, both struggled with childcare regularly). Absolutely unable to see past her own wants. I was so fucking happy when she left.

I don't have children and as a manager I do try to consider the different needs of people who do have young children at times like Christmas. It's easier because my team is mostly made up of people who don't have children and are happy to work Christmas week and are generally not tied to school holidays for their time off. Equally I think people who don't have children can have good reasons for wanting Christmas off - for example if they have family abroad, or just want a week off to relax!

But I would never ask a colleague with children to work a specific day just for the sake of being "equal" and making everyone do their bit if it's possible to facilitate that time off for them.

@Ylvamoon

Great, I hope none of you need the next generation for any kind of service... no nursing in old age, no tax payments to support your health care & pensions, no delivery driversfor your online shopping, to name a few things you might need or simply want. Naturally parents want to spend time with their children... best time for that is during school holidays. So while I agree holidays should be first come first served, in some circumstances parents should have preferential treatment. Especially if there isn't any childcare available like at Christmas and Easter bank holidays.

Nobody has kids to pay tax, don't pretend having kids isn't a selfish act (not having kids is too).

Me not having kids means I pay taxes which pays for your kids educations, paid for them to be born etc.

This old arguement...

@senorafridgidaire sounds very fair. I have a lot of sympathy for DPs trying to cover school holidays, but hogging or trying to hog all of the festive period when there is another DP at home is ridiculous.
I'm lucky enough to have an office job so no Christmas Day work, but as DH has been a contractor he was sometimes required to take 2-3 weeks off at Christmas. When that happened I'd work right through to Christmas Eve and then between then and NY. Plenty of time together for us to make magical memories with the statutory holiday days and good for DH to spend some time with DS by himself.