AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

@JazzyBBG

Hmmm on the fence here as a parent, you have to accept to a degree that people will want that time off at certain ages. Equally as someone who pays for a lot of childcare in holidays it shouldn't be all the time. But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)

They might be a child free teacher.

I remember in a previous employment a colleague kicking off that she should get a fortnight off and the rest of the team should work over Christmas simply because she had children and others didn't. The annual leave for Christmas was allocated per team for the team to divvy up between them. It usually worked well, with plenty of give and take. Not on this occasion unfortunately. I really resented the implication that if you don't have children then your ability to spend time with loved ones is somehow less valid or less important. The individual had childcare from her mother so that wasnt the issue, it was literally a 'I should get to be off, Ive got kids!' kind of scenario

School holidays are really mainly august. Before I had kids I loved going away may/June/ early July. It’s quieter and cheaper. But I suppose if someone child free wants to go on holiday in the summer holidays they have an equal right to.

@DockOTheBay

The school holidays are basically the whole summer, by the time schools go back in Sept, the nights are drawing in

What about the first 3 weeks of May, all of June and 80% off July. Most years the weather is much nicer in June and July than August anyway

It often pisses down in the UK in June. I know because DH is busy July-Dec so that's when we take holiday.

As someone that isn’t a parent, it drives me crazy. It’s hard to justify sometimes the preferential treatment. Mornings off because of childcare that isn’t ever documented, kids running around in the back of calls, absolutely no additional hours outside the 9-5, being able to just drop a project to do emergency pick ups from school, Christmas off as a given, all the summer holidays allocated to those with kids… it’s tiresome when you’re working hard and having to make sacrifices with family and friends, holidays etc. Love my job but have to say it’s one of the most annoying parts!

Christmas should be split so some get before Xmas and some get after Xmas off. Rather than one person gets 2 weeks:

Unless it's a sector with an actual need to work from 24 - 31 Dec, I don't see why businesses don't just close for that time anyway. Nobody gets any work done. Loads of times I've come into an office in that period and all there is to do is filing and eating mince pies.

It's all very well saying parents shouldn't have first dibs, but often there is no viable alternative for childcare over Christmas.

Yanbu, every one should be treated equally when it comes to holidays.

But it's also nice when we show our colleagues some consideration for their circumstances. Fortunately, for the first time ever, my employer has decided to close on Christmas day this year.

Last year I was scheduled to work, but had just left my abusive husband, nursery aren't open, and my mum and nan were both on call so were not suitable candidates.

I had less than a month to sort out childcare on top of somewhere to live, somehow retaining my job, and handling a traumatic event.

Because I hadn't previously booked Christmas off because our plan was always that my husband would have our son for the 5 hours I was scheduled to work on Christmas, I was told by my employer sorry annual leave is first come first serve.

Equally, we're often asked by our Muslim and childfree colleagues to work Eid/Ramadan and random select events through the year like gigs and weddings etc, in exchange for them covering some of our school holidays.

Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't and you get people on both sides who are just the cat who got the cream and end up with their leave and the holidays off as well.

I think if you take a job that involves having to work on certain days, you have to go into it on the understanding and acceptance that you might be working those days.

Most people want to see family over Christmas whether they have children or not. Fair enough, some people might volunteer to work (my mum always did once my brother and I were teenagers and we'd just fit our dinner and things around her shifts) but if they don't they have absolutely the same right to time off as those with kids.

Can't have it all ways. If you want kids and you want a job you can't expect special treatment within that job. If you don't want to work over holiday times choose a job in a school or something.

I think one day we will all be looking back on this era in the same way we look back on the Victorians with their one day at the beach each year for working people.

It’s currently the culture for everyone’s lives to revolve around work 24/7 as if that should be all a person is about. Yes, that’s necessity for many but it is also peoples acceptance of a cultural norm.

All people regardless of their marital status or number of dependents should have a right to have a family life. It shouldn’t be a race to the bottom. Yes, it’s annoying for childless people if their requests are not prioritised but I don’t see that as a reason for another person to loose out. Why is life becoming about making sure everyone looses out equally instead of using collective bargaining to make sure everyone gains equally?!

I'm really on the fence about this. Christmas everyone should have a fair chance, its not only parents that celebrate Christmas after all.
Summer holidays I do think priority should be given to parents and those whose partners are teachers for the bulk of the holiday (I'm not talking the odd day here and there, but two weeks main annual leave). 'Summer' lasts a lot longer than the six weeks kids are off.

Its never going to be easy to please all. An old company of mine used to use length of service to decide if there were too many requests for the same date, so the same people got their choice every year!

No parents shouldn’t get preferential treatment at Christmas definitely. Everyone loves Christmas.
But other the times of the year such as the summer hols it’s nice toe show a bit of courtesy. Parents basically at 5/6 week block where they can book a holiday with their kids. Non parents have a good few months of nice weather to choose from. When I was child free I never booked the summer hols. I booked may June and September. Made sense. It’s cheaper anyway. I would like to think I paid it forward and can hope to get at least two weeks off in the summer every year.

@Tilltheend99 a lot of jobs need cover every day. Someone has to keep sewage plants going, work in hospitals, drive supplies to shops. And some office work is needed to support that. The time people want off at Christmas has expanded. When my parents were young adults they only got half a day off on Christmas day, Now people want 2 weeks off.

They might be a child free teacher not when you work in a law firm though - and they're not all married to school staff or going to weddings/events.

I don't really understand it - now that my son is older I will avoid holidays in August very happily. Cheaper and quieter.

Unless it's a sector with an actual need to work from 24 - 31 Dec, I don't see why businesses don't just close for that time anyway. Nobody gets any work done. Loads of times I've come into an office in that period and all there is to do is filing and eating mince pies.

While I didn’t really mind working between Christmas and New Year, it was a good time to catch up on non urgent tasks, what did annoy me was the number of people who said they’d be in at the November staff meeting but then quietly booked leave so when the time came there’d be two or three people in. One year it was just me and the CEO.

I was happy though when the union finally negotiated a Christmas closedown as part of a pay deal. I always thought it not environmentally friendly to keep a large building open, lit, heated and powered and to provide basic services for the greatly reduced number of staff working.

@olivehater

No parents shouldn’t get preferential treatment at Christmas definitely. Everyone loves Christmas. But other the times of the year such as the summer hols it’s nice toe show a bit of courtesy. Parents basically at 5/6 week block where they can book a holiday with their kids. Non parents have a good few months of nice weather to choose from. When I was child free I never booked the summer hols. I booked may June and September. Made sense. It’s cheaper anyway. I would like to think I paid it forward and can hope to get at least two weeks off in the summer every year.

Since school summer holidays are more expensive, child-free or parents with adult children book summer holidays off for a reason. That may be a wedding, to go on a holiday with extended family including children, to attend an event such as a festival, or because their partner is in a job where they only get school holidays off. My DP works in a job where he never gets term time off, he is not a teacher. Before we had kids I still took summer holidays off, otherwise we could not have had any time off together. Few people go on holiday themselves. Most rely on when family and friends can take time off too.

I asked for some time off the week before Christmas to take my DS to see Santa etc. A childfree colleague had got there first so I was refused. He was surprised I was refused as work will be quiet, and he immediately offered to swap as it makes no difference to him whatsoever. I declined as I don't want to be "that parent" and have days off the week before instead.
My boss is now off the week before Christmas too and my other colleague is now having time off at the same time as me. Both also child free. So apparently now having more than one person off isn't a problem, it was only when it was me wanting a fixed date to book to take my child to see Santa that it was an issue. "We'll see nearer the time" is no use when you need to book things well in advance!
Not sure what to make of it to be honest.

My fil was not allowed summer holiday leave as his dc were adults… his wife (mil) was a teacher so they couldn’t ever have a summer holiday. Overall, people with care responsibilities need a little more flex than those who don’t, however, all circumstances need to be taken into account. Clear management is the issue, not parents.

I don't think preferential treatment is fair, but at the same time maybe the answer is to try and change working practices and culture? Some parents book time off because they don't have childcare - and saying 'well it's their choice to have children so tough' isn't exactly being friendly to working parents - is it? But also people who don't have children should be able to get time off in summer too.

When my child goes to school I would want to have time off during the holidays to spend time with him. I don't think that should mean that none of my childfree colleagues should ever be able to get the same time off- but I'd be upset if I couldn't get some of it. Life is not just about work.
Luckily most of my colleagues don't have children (so far) so if I am in the same job I don't think it will be a major issue- oh and no one works over Christmas.

One of the few) good things about where I work is tat we have a very diverse workforce, particularly in relation to age - 20's up to 70's. We don't have any problems with holidays and Christmas/new year as everyone wants different things in relation to leave. The older ones like a bit of winter sun, the parents want school holidays and the rest of us want anything but the school holidays. Christmas and new year are on a strict rota and if it is your turn you work it, though usually people can work fewer hours ( less demand) and still earn the same due to double time. Maybe greater diversity in the work place is the answer. I'd certainly not want to work anywhere that parents got priority for leave, I've two grown up sons myself and would never have asked for this, we always managed to cobble together a plan that just about worked with a combination of odd bits of leave, one granny and a student in an au pair type role some summers.

Definitely shouldn’t be taken for granted. You’re lucky if you have easygoing colleagues that don’t mind working school holidays. If I were child free, I’d be happy to take time off in September, rather than August. Christmas, again, depends on individuals.

@JazzyBBG

Hmmm on the fence here as a parent, you have to accept to a degree that people will want that time off at certain ages. Equally as someone who pays for a lot of childcare in holidays it shouldn't be all the time. But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)

Well I used to want time off in the school holidays before I had my own child because my sister died and my BIL appreciated the help with my niece and nephew during the holidays which I always gave. I also used to help my parents at their house when they had the DNs to stay and also and spend time abroad with them all to help out.

I spent ten years having holidays in the school holidays before having children. Then I had my own children so I've never really had a time in my working life when I haven't wanted/needed to take most of my leave during school holidays.

I haven't always been able to have the leave when I wanted it but I didn't feel like my need was less before I had children.

@Darkpheonix

The problem is working in small organisations where it matters who gets leave when. If people have a major problem with it they should go to a larger employer and problem solved.

Well yes, if you can't organise childcare while you work, you do need to look for another job. Not expect colleagues to even it out.

And employers won't be held over a barrel by parents threatening unpaid leave. You do realise unpaid leave isn't an endless well you can pull from, don't you.

Also unpaid leave has to be approved, and can be declined

I was made to work five Christmas's in a row in my previous position. My family is all a flight away and we only got Christmas day as a bank holiday. I was also the last one to be approved for a week's leave in August, when my DH has an enforced two weeks off when the factory shuts.

I was explicitly told "Well, you don't have children so you're not a priority".

I am unable to have children.

But other the times of the year such as the summer hols it’s nice toe show a bit of courtesy… Non parents have a good few months of nice weather to choose from.
I'm imagining someone telling my several friends who are involuntarily without children (due to being long-term single/fertility issues/multiple MCs etc) to 'show a bit of courtesy' if they suggest they'd like summer holiday time off...

And as for non parents, we have lives and people in them too. What if I need a specific time because of my or my DP's work? Or because a friend/family member I'm taking holiday to see only has that time available or I'm attending a wedding/christening/memorial? Should I just 'choose' not to see them and to go away at some other time and oh, it's OK because it's nice weather?