AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

I went fucking ballistic when a new colleague was given preference over me during half term week.
She has kids, I had plans with my mum (who nearly died this year)
I got told "aww go and have a chat with her and see if she can share the week with you..."
I've gone through the whole year now and booked everything I want. There's a few things I have during half term etc and I will not be flexible for those.
I rarely book summer holidays (cost and other people's kids) we are off Christmas anyway.
Other people's life choices are not my problem.
I used to be very sympathetic, but a few people took the piss, thanks to them I no longer budge.
Your childcare, your problem.

I had this about 20 years ago.
Priority on Christmas Eve was given to those with Children, I had to work until 6. I lived a 4 hour train journey away and didn't drive at the time. I finished too late to be able to make it home, so spent Christmas day alone. 22 in a bedsit. It was grim.
My granddad died only few weeks later and it still upsets me I never got to spend that Christmas with him.
Now I'm older I would kick up a fuss and make sure I had the time off. Then I was a shy unsure 22.
YANBU - you don't know what others personal situations are.

I don’t necessarily think they should have preferable treatment. However, now the kids are older I love going on holiday in term time as it’s cheaper and quieter. Only exception is Christmas.

First come serve, and a fair rota for Christmas/New Year. I had to put my foot down with an employer once, when I was refused Christmas Eve on the grounds of no kids: my family lived a LONG way away and my granny was elderly. Just because someone doesn’t have children, doesn’t mean they don’t have family. And that family doesn’t always live within easy travelling distance. I was happy to work New Year instead.

I do agree, but for popular holidays like Christmas I don't think first come first served is fair either. Everywhere I have worked has had a different way of doing it and it usually worked well. My first job we all wanted to work Christmas day for the extra money, so had to have names in a hat for who would work! Worked somewhere where shifts changed a lot so did a ballot, first out chose first etc; many wanted new years and not Christmas or weren't fussed and others really wanted it so usually worked out okay between ourselves. Somewhere else we just all submitted what leave we wanted and it would go by who had what last year if there was a tie. It is hard though if childcare is closed, you have no family around and are on your own, its not just a case that parents want the time off necessarily, but yes it shouldn't be at the expense of the rest of the team- everyone should be give and take.

@GreenVia

Ideally everyone should be treated equally, however , I expect a level of understanding re my personal circumstances. I have children and I want to spend holidays with them. If my boss won't accomodate I will go and find a more flexibile employer. My boss can then ask my childless collegue to cover...or not..as the childless collegue is full time WFH due to having some health condition and being "scared" of covid.

Agree with thiS fact is it's impossible to find childcare at Xmas

It's also impossible to get childcare for under age 4 at any time of year - that's the minimum age for most holiday clubs

Childfree who deliberately take holiday during half terms are just doing it or be a pain in the arse and make a point that their "needs" are the same as us parents when quite frankly it's not.

Blah blah blah it's my choice to have children etc but my children will be paying your pensions one day so you do need some of us to have children

YABNU

Having a child does not mean you should have the pick of the holidays. I like how our work does it, we each get 2 priority weeks we have and then all other dates are up for grabs. I put mine the weeks before Christmas as I like this time off but it means I works both half terms and Easter

I don't think parents should get preferential treatment for time off at Christmas and Easter (and school holidays) at all. If you are a parent, you have to think ahead and book the time early enough to get the weeks/days you want.

That does of course depend on having a sensible employer who allocates leave that way. Some decide to allocate on the basis of who they think most deserves it, which is a nonsense. Fortunately I only had one employer who did it that way.

When I was tied to school holidays I used to book time way in advance to make sure I got the week I needed.

@Coldilox

Glassofshloer people don’t need to not have babies, they just need to organise and pay for childcare. It’s what most working parents do.

And we're would be likely to find paid Childcare on Christmas Day or Boxing day?

My normal Childcare doesn't run over the Christmas holidays at all, due to lack of demand and I'd think many Childminders probably close then too, as they are people who want holidays as well.

Not to mention children are people with thoughts and feelings going somewhere unfamiliar can be stressful and upsetting for them to.

I also agree that it's really annoying when childfree people/people without school-aged kids who aren't married to teachers/school staff take time off in August! They aren't all going to weddings.

I promise not to do it

@ChaToilLeam

First come serve, and a fair rota for Christmas/New Year. I had to put my foot down with an employer once, when I was refused Christmas Eve on the grounds of no kids: my family lived a LONG way away and my granny was elderly. Just because someone doesn’t have children, doesn’t mean they don’t have family. And that family doesn’t always live within easy travelling distance. I was happy to work New Year instead.

I agree. I did have a job a few years ago where I had to work Christmas Eve and it was a real pain for visiting my mum who lives 3 hours away. Fortunately though I only had to work until 1pm so had time to get to her . Though that was because I was a relatively new employee, not because I didn't have school-aged kids (as I did at the time).

@AndMatt

The school holidays are basically the whole summer, by the time schools go back in Sept, the nights are drawing in. DH always needed some time in summer because he was a cadet instructor and wanted to take other people's kids away, DF needed school holidays because he was married to a teacher...

The rules should apply equally to everyone IMO and no one person should get to book all their holidays until everyone has had the opportunity to book at least 2 weeks

The nights are NOT drawing in by mid september. Especially in many countries abroad .

The best system ive ever had was you voted only book 10days holiday between June and September so you would get 14 days off with your days off as well. The first year you were with company you said if they year you would prefer to work xmas or new year and then it swapped each year. Other than that it was a first come basis.

@alanskisj

I don't think parents should have preferential treatment, or it should be first come first serve. Things like Christmas should be shared equally, if you don't have one Christmas off you can have the next instead etc. Otherwise you get the individual who books all the 'best' days off at the start of the year and screw anyone else who can't make plans that early.

This. First come first served isn't fair at all but a rota system is.

I'm lucky that there are only 2 of us in my team and my job means I can take time off whenever I like but if this wasn't the case and someone kept getting there first before I knew my plans, I would be very angry.

We treat everyone equally. No one person has a higher priority to certain holidays. No one has to explain or justify why they want a particular holiday. Sometimes you get the holidays you want, other times you will have to work so your colleagues can have the holidays they want. Being a parent doesn’t mean you have first choice over Christmas holidays or the school holidays.

You’re absolutely right. There definitely shouldn’t be priority for those with children. Kids or no kids I definitely don’t want to work Christmas Day and would only do my fair share (like this year 😞).
During summer holidays I’d generally rather avoid taking time off then anyway pre kids as it’s so pricey and busy, but there are times that’s not an option.

I don’t think Christmas is just about children. It’s a time for family. I take two weeks off every Christmas to travel to my home place. My siblings in their twenties fly home from US and Canada where they live. It’s an incredibly special time where we all get together and have real quality time. Luckily my office closes for Christmas so it’s not an issue but I would be so angry if I was expected to not see my family and especially my siblings who I only see once or twice a year as someone thought their family set up (young children) took precedence over mine.

@Ylvamoon lots of people posting are parents. Who also believe in fairness of leave. They’re not wittering on about who will support and nurse you etc like you are it’s such a weak argument.

"So you think 80% of the population should not have had children to enable their colleagues to go on holiday? They should give up an instinctive desire & crash the population because of our ridiculous working culture? Who would be nursing you in your old age?"

This must be a record - that's at least three "bingos" in one paragraph!!!

I'm childfree and spent a lot of my career getting screwed over for leave by parents. Not just holidays, but also the option to skip out on the middle of a workday because of last minute school pick ups when I feel guilty asking for half a day to deal with house repairs. Luckily my new workplace (third sector) is very fair as most staff are childfree and there's a lot more understanding.

And, by the way, it's not an "instinctive desire" by the way. Doesn't make it any less valid, but speaking as someone who spent four years studying behavioural genetics... it's just not. It's an insult to parents when you talk about them like helpless livestock, and I'm not even a parent. Use the language of choice.

A decent boss will run a rota to keep track of who's booking what.

My old boss had a blanket rule that if you'd booked the days between Xmas & new year the previous year then you were blocked from making requests for these days until the staff who worked them had made their bookings... If you had it off the year before you basically got the dregs the next year. Which seems fair and stops one person hogging it all.

Rest of the year was first come first served, but she had school holidays in her calendar to make sure people weren't taking the piss. For example and ex colleague of mine on Jan 3rd tried to book all the half terms in the year. They had no plans, but wanted to block them out just in case. My manager refused them all and said pick one.

Summer holidays seem to even themselves out. I don't know anyone who has enough holiday to book the entire 6 weeks off, so you just work around your colleagues. If you want a certain date then book it way in advance.

It should be on a rota.

If you had Xmas off this year, next year you can't. If you had 1st 2 weeks in Aug, next year you can't irrespective of how many DC you have.

The nights are NOT drawing in by mid september. Especially in many countries abroad
Mid September is the autumn solstice, where there's 12 hours of day light with sun rise at 6am and set at 6pm (GMT).

Apologies for my superfluous "by the way", by the way.

But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague

I don't have children but I had two weeks' annual leave booked over the summer holidays this year: one for an event abroad that happens in August (trip cancelled this year of course) and the other for two weekday weddings within a week of each other which involved considerable travel.

I wouldn't have a problem parents having priority over the summer and most school holidays as going away outside those times is much cheaper (and the weather in June/early July is often better than August IMO) but I wouldn't want Christmas to always go to those with kids as it's a family time and there's more to family than just young children.

"So you think 80% of the population should not have had children to enable their colleagues to go on holiday? They should give up an instinctive desire & crash the population because of our ridiculous working culture? Who would be nursing you in your old age?"

Nursing home? I wouldn't expect my kids to be nursing me! Even if they were qualified.