AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

What's wrong with that comment?!
Because the OP is part of the human race too.
Witout parents work and workplaces would not exist.
Having chidrern from a human societal point of you is not like owning a dog.
It is essential for the continuation of our species- whether or not you think that is good thing it is not a lifestyle choice.

I don't think parents should be given preferential hoiliday choices or working hours, but to say that having a child is a choice is is in danger of disadvantaging those who do.
Without babies there would be no society, no workplaces, no work.

Ideally everyone should be treated equally, however , I expect a level of understanding re my personal circumstances. I have children and I want to spend holidays with them. If my boss won't accomodate I will go and find a more flexibile employer.
My boss can then ask my childless collegue to cover...or not..as the childless collegue is full time WFH due to having some health condition and being "scared" of covid.

Doesn't bother me one bit.

1. Young children SHOULD have quality time with parents during school holidays.

1. Money saved on childcare usually gets ploughed into day trips or activities with the kids. That's social education & the more kids get, the better.

If we want happy, well rounded young adults in society we need to support parents who want to put time & resources into young children. Parents also need a decent break & they don't get it if they're up & about doing school runs due to taking their leave in term time.

@GreenVia

Ideally everyone should be treated equally, however , I expect a level of understanding re my personal circumstances. I have children and I want to spend holidays with them. If my boss won't accomodate I will go and find a more flexibile employer. My boss can then ask my childless collegue to cover...or not..as the childless collegue is full time WFH due to having some health condition and being "scared" of covid.

But surely quite a lot of people have family and would like to spend the holidays with them. You’re not the only one, and if everyone’s ‘personal circumstances’ were accommodated then they would have nobody to work there.

Now I'm a mum no I don't think it's unreasonable for us to have priority . Very simple reason -childcare ! Unless the government takes additional steps to support working parents then I don't see any other choice

If we want happy, well rounded young adults in society we need to support parents who want to put time & resources into young children. Parents also need a decent break & they don't get it if they're up & about doing school runs due to taking their leave in term time.

Believe me, a term time holiday is the ONLY time I’d get a ‘proper break.’ But regardless it’s not my colleagues jobs to think ‘aww poor Amy she doesn’t get a proper break because she needs to take her kids to school.’ I’m paid the same as them to do the same job. What I do/need to do on my annual leave isn’t their concern.

@GreenVia there are a lot more people with adult children and maybe younger nieces and nephews who want to have family time or holidays away, than parents who work and have young children.
How do you balance everyone's needs? Personally I don't think an employer should get involved in weighing up whose holiday request is more worthy. And I would leave any employer that did this.

I think first come first served is fine! If people are moaning that 'oh you shouldn't have had kids then/your kids shouldn't impact me' then equally I'd be moaning 'well why don't you plan in advance then because I know my plans a year ahead and can book accordingly to try and save myself £££££ in childcare'

Christmas is harder as it should be fairer for all but you'll always get some who are happy to work. My DM and MIL always worked Christmas when theirs were older as the way they saw it they had loads of years with full family days and wanted to let colleagues with younger ones enjoy the day. They did however always then get NYE off as the ones with kids couldn't then usually go off out partying due to their age/lack of babysitters at that time of year

Yes I worked one place where you got Christmas or NYE off, never both. I didn't have kids but always took Christmas day off.

It should be first come first served. Just because someone has kids it doesn't make them more deserving of that time off. It's a choice to have kids, you have to expect to use childcare to cover holiday time at times. Colleagues should not have to give up on the time they want off simply for parents.

I agree with the op.

We have a first come first served basis at work, but we also run a 'buddy' system where you have 2 other colleagues, one of which needs to be in the office if you're off, so when booking you just need to make sure, one of the two are working, and sort it out between yourselves. Christmas is done on a rota basis, swaps often occur but that's up to the individuals.

One Christmas we had had a few new starters on the ward I worked on . The ward sister did the Christmas off duty and gave Christmas off to all the new starters but not us original staff . When I challenged her on this decision she said that they needed it off as they all had small children . I asked if that meant that I would never have another Christmas off as my children were now adults . Off duty needs to be done fairly and nobody is more entitled because they have children .

I voted yabu as you used the word "gotten".
But also because I think of the children and the impact on them rather than the impact on the adults. Of course it shouldn't be every year, there are ways to make if fairer than that. But in a straight choice between someone who will live two primary aged kids without their mum on Christmas Day, and someone who would only be disappointing themselves by working on the day, I would pick the former.
I'm not saying that is fair as it isn't, but it is good for children to get Christmas with parents or one family holiday a year in school holiday time.

I think annual leave should be fair but also recognise that childcare is very hard to find on christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day and that parents cant take their children out of school for holidays. I would always be one requesting my annual leave in term time before I had kids as it was cheaper and often nicer weather. Ive never had to work christmas

If we want happy, well rounded young adults in society we need to support parents who want to put time & resources into young children. Parents also need a decent break & they don't get it if they're up & about doing school runs due to taking their leave in term time.

Firstly, plenty of kids have a sahp and still end up not well rounded. Spending time with your kids, isn't all it takes. Just like plenty of kids are well rounded AND have parents who work and spend time with them. Kids who are 'well rounded' don't end up that way only bases on hours their parents spend with them. Its really not the main qualifier.

People without kids do not have to invest in kids they didn't have, because 'you are making children into sad adults if you dont'

Parents with kids get up anyway, in most cases. I thought the general rule was being at home with kids, is not a break and is hard work. And, again, most parents will have a partner or Co parent.

Its not for colleagues to facilitate.

I can't imagine anyone booking their holidays around 'do I think Bob has had enough of a genuine break this year'.

What about ensuring colleagues remain well rounded, is that everyone else's responsibility too? What if childless Bob really needs a break because he is burning out but Sue won't priorise him because she has kids and believes her husbands job is far too important for him to take time off to have their kids instead?

@Drunkpanda

I voted yabu as you used the word "gotten". But also because I think of the children and the impact on them rather than the impact on the adults. Of course it shouldn't be every year, there are ways to make if fairer than that. But in a straight choice between someone who will live two primary aged kids without their mum on Christmas Day, and someone who would only be disappointing themselves by working on the day, I would pick the former. I'm not saying that is fair as it isn't, but it is good for children to get Christmas with parents or one family holiday a year in school holiday time.

@Drunkpanda Perhaps you should vote yourself as being unreasonable as gotten is a true Old English word, and the PROPER term.

I think Christmas should be on a rota so that everyone gets a chance, it's also a time of year where other DP is likely to be off, so whilst working over the festive period with small DCs may not be ideal, then for many at least there are no childcare issues.

Taking holidays in school holidays is another matter. We have no family help so I remember grimly plotting every school holiday day off so DS wasn't in holiday club too much and we all got a break together as a family. Being allocated weeks outside of school holidays would have been useless to me.

Also if the system allows people to book their whole year of annual leave in one go at the stroke of midnight, then the issue is the system not the person doing it. I was trying to revamp our holiday booking system but some people didn't like the way people with children booked their holidays months in advance and thought it would be fairer to leave time open in July/aug so others could book last minute deals .

Now DS is an older teen it's less of an issue for us as we haven't got the childcare problem. I would prefer not taking holidays when it's hugely expensive and am looking forward to being able to go away in June and September again ( that's assuming we are ever able to reliably book holidays abroad in the future).

I used to work for a 24 hours security company on a shift rota basis before I had children.
For 5 years my shifts had meant me working Christmas (I had been promoted once and moved teams once so it kept falling on Christmas)
The 5th year had been particularly brutal in that I worked (12 hour shifts) on Christmas eve, Christmas day, boxing day and the day after, and was the back in at 6am on new year's day.
So, when the following year my shifts fell outside of Christmas I was thrilled.
A colleague who was a new dad, asked to swap shifts with me (sometime in the summer) so that he could have Christmas off, and I declined. He was slightly senior to me, but I was a supervisor , so there were only 4 of us who could do that shift swap.

Fast forward to October, and there's an internal promotion which he gave to me. I hadn't applied for it but it was the same level, just an extra project with a bit more money) but the stipulation was I would end up working Christmas. I accepted it and my colleague got Christmas off.
After Christmas, I was told there had been an admin error and although I could still do the job, I needed to swap my shift pattern back - turns out he had engineered the shift swap claiming that it was originally part of the requirement, but now he'd had Christmas off, it no longer was.
I left.
His parting words to me were "should have swapped the shifts when I asked you"

I work in a school now I have children!

Absolutely people without children should have the exact same priority status as those with.
Sorry, OP. I feel your pain

Absolutely not and my option never change from before kids ,school age and now adults .
Why should someone else personal circumstance dictate my holidays.

Many years ago me and an other childless colleague were called in the office to book holidays . All school holiday crossed out and we were told we were entitled to them as we have no kids and would be selfish if we booked any

Yes situations change but whether a workplace operates over the Christmas period should be taken into consideration by parents who take up jobs, and if they have suitable childcare mechanisms in place to deal with this rather than moan about it later and make it someone else's problem.

@Mellowyellow222

I have always gone out of my may to allow colleagues with kids to have Christmas etc - but to be honest it is starting to annoy me.

With working from home I now find parents seem to believe they have an automatic right to disappear for the afternoon school run. If I said I am going for a non negotiable walk for half an hour at 3pm every day I would quickly be told i am required to attend meetings.

I do think work should be flexible, but I think some parents expect far too much.

Having children is a choice and a privilege. I shouldn’t have to work harder and longer to allow other people time off to enjoy family life simply because I don’t have children.

Not to derail but I do this - I don't take a proper lunch break and continue working when we're back and in the evening if needs be.

If I have a meeting booked in that would take priority and I'd find other arrangements but most of the time I can work around it. The flexibility is such a help. Although I think your point was some people take the piss - not all of us do!

I don't think they should get preferential treatment but I do believe Christmas is more for kids so personally pre kids I happily would work Xmas and allow parents to take it off if required.

I'm on the fence with this. Before I had children I helped out colleagues a lot who had timetabling issues due to childcare. (We are part-time teachers and I took the less popular slots for lessons). Now I feel that should be recognised a bit but there has been a policy change and I don't get any help at all!

Just to reassure any christmas day workers. Both my parents did shifts and one of them was always at work on christmas day, sometimes both of them. I spent a few christmas days in the works cafe whilst my parents worked if their shifts overlapped. We would have christmas before they went or after they were back or just on a different day. I am balanced and rounded and i enjoyed it.

I've never worked anywhere where Christmas and Easter are first come first served, there's always a spreadsheet of some sort you fill in with what you want and then it's reviewed to check there's cover, and negotiated as necessary, so you might get most of what you want but have to cover one day or even half a day to make it work.

When I've worked somewhere that's operational through Christmas there's always been a shift pattern and if it falls that you're on shift you're working, there may be some leave allowed but again it's covered by requests then negotiation, someone has Christmas Eve off and someone else gets New Year's Eve for example.

I've usually found that there are people who don't want Christmas and new year off, they prefer to use their leave at other times, so for example their DH or DW might take leave and they don't do they have leave to use at half term. I did this with exH when we had school holidays to cover, we shared them between us. It's nice to all be home but when you have so many school holidays to cover it's not always possible.