AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

*It is incomprehensible to me that people cannot be bothered to recruit and cultivate an array of babysitters and cooperative arrangements with friends/neighbors so that childcare in December isn't dependent on coworker sacrifices.

I put more thought into finding backup care for my dog! Starting before I acquired him because i knew the need would arise. Isn't that bare minimum?*

Absolutely. I said something similar earlier. It’s basic common sense and it’s the responsible thing to do. But apparently I was being unfair to say that.
It’s also not as if Christmas is a surprise. It’s December 25th. Every. Single. Year. It doesn’t exactly sneak up on people out of the blue.

@Iseestupidpeople

Well there’s a lot of child hating Karens on here.

Oh dear.

At least you didn’t opt for ‘cool girls’ or ‘handmaidens’ when choosing your misogynistic insult, I guess.

If you can point out any child-hating posts, I’d be interested to see them. You’ll find plenty of people who are indifferent to the children of their colleagues, but i don’t recall any child hating on the thread.

I completely understand why parents would like "extra" holiday time. Not even "extra" time. I used to gladly give up mine - my children are all grown and flown, doing their own thing. I willingly worked Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, etc. so other people could spend time with their children. Sadly, when I needed (not wanted) to actually take my days, I was met with verbal abuse.
No good deed goes unpunished. I haven't done it since, which I find very sad, to be honest. One person in particular, actually called me "a fucking selfish bitch" because I needed to take my days. Even though, for the last three out of five years, I'd quite happily let her have two of my holiday days.
I needed to take some time because I was losing my sister to cancer. Admittedly, it wasn't common knowledge, but even so. Sadly, the few ruin it for the many. I'm not sure I'd be willing to do it again. I didn't even "sell" my days. I was happy to do it.

I mostly agree with you.

Parents shouldn't have priority.

Where I work Christmas etc are not FCFS either. Everyone puts in their request and it is supposed to alternate so if you don't get one year then tI get the next one.

it is incomprehensible to me that people cannot be bothered to recruit and cultivate an array of babysitters and cooperative arrangements with friends/neighbors so that childcare in December isn't dependent on coworker sacrifices.

Incomprehensible, really?

OH!! AND!! Because I was SO pissed off with the company allowing me to be verbally abused by this person, when the booking your days off time came around, I arrived super early (no school run stuff, etc.) And because it was first come, first served, I booked the whole of the coming year. Every single bank holiday. Plus, a day either side. Except for Easter. I booked 2 days either side for that. And because I had so much holiday left, I took 2 weeks for Christmas and New Year.
So there. Nur.

I work in the NHS. In my department leave is agreed on a first come basis and we can book up to one year ahead.

But... Christmas and New Year weeks are done on a voluntary basis and everyone has to do a shift - no exceptions.

We find that due to the mix of child/childless plus multiple different religions we get it covered.

I am an organised person and do book my leave a year ahead, however l have also switched weeks if a colleague is desperate and l could accommodate.

I do agree, ultimately though my children come before my colleagues and my work for me, as I expect is the case for most parents.

Is it really incomprehensible, that some parents wouldn't have an army of babysitters available for Xmas day? Can people really not comprehend that some parents are doing it all alone? That schools and nurseries and childminders are closed on Xmas day? That jobs requiring Xmas day cover tend to be the minimum wage type, with recruitment/retention issues that Jobcentre 'work coaches' push claimants in to? Like care work, which tends to be done by working class women. If these parents refuse to apply for, or take, these jobs, they are 'sanctioned' - being unlikely to have childcare in December just doesn't cut it, as a reason not to take a job, in April. Minimum wage, subsidised by Universal Credit, simply doesn't allow for the retention of an army of babysitters, ie, nannies/childminders. There is no childcare available on Xmas day to those (mostly) women. Boxing Day, NYE/day, Sundays, Bank Holidays, Easter are also very difficult.

@MockneyReject

Is it really incomprehensible, that some parents wouldn't have an army of babysitters available for Xmas day? Can people really not comprehend that some parents are doing it all alone? That schools and nurseries and childminders are closed on Xmas day? That jobs requiring Xmas day cover tend to be the minimum wage type, with recruitment/retention issues that Jobcentre 'work coaches' push claimants in to? Like care work, which tends to be done by working class women. If these parents refuse to apply for, or take, these jobs, they are 'sanctioned' - being unlikely to have childcare in December just doesn't cut it, as a reason not to take a job, in April. Minimum wage, subsidised by Universal Credit, simply doesn't allow for the retention of an army of babysitters, ie, nannies/childminders. There is no childcare available on Xmas day to those (mostly) women. Boxing Day, NYE/day, Sundays, Bank Holidays, Easter are also very difficult.

Excellent post and an important point.

I am a parent but luckily my children could be taken out of school to go on holiday when it was cheaper.I often work Christmas but m my husband then looked after the children .Schools have not caught up with most parents work and after school clubs etc very poor in Somerset always have been

[quote julieca]@JakeyRolling I am not religious. My now dead Christian friend would have been very upset to miss a Christmas day service. She could have missed seeing family, but not missing church.
I assume your grandfather attended a church service on Christmas day on the boat? There will have been one.[/quote]
Sometimes but rarely. He spent more than one Christmas in the innards of the engine.

@Iseestupidpeople

Well there’s a lot of child hating Karens on here.

I’ don’t hate children, just sanctimonious parents of which there are a fair few on this thread. Not all are like that though thankfully.

There should be some sort of rota-so the same people don’t get first choice every year, but would you believe that some aren’t happy with that either. A colleague liked to take the week before the school break every year because it’s slightly cheaper and was really annoyed when a parent booked it because it meant she could actually afford to go away, because even with the fine it cost less.

I've always worked places with a fair system for Christmas, often we would swap amongst ourselves if we wanted but everyone has an equal chance of getting christmas off, and annual leave around summer tends to be fairly approved. I do agree with some PPs though that its not always a case of someone just wanting time off, for many circumstances change so even with plans before having children, it doesn't mean you have a network of people that can look after your child whilst you work; especially on Christmas day! Its not colleagues' responsibility to shoulder that, or the employers, but there isn't really a solution either and the child cannot be left alone.

Going from a practical perspective the population is aging and parents need and should have a degree of protection , because after all it’s all ok to say “ it’s a choice “ but parents are creating the next generation of tax payers , the ones that will be paying yours abd said childless colleagues pension and care etc .
Of course from a personal perspective it’s harder but the reality is that accepting being or not being a parent comes with a degree of pros and cons and legal protection . So yes when I give permission to holidays with my team if there are requests for school holidays I will always give them to parents first , once more off course it’s not always black and white , like a example I have a team member that refused to work most of lockdown , because she has 2 children at home , now while I’m sympathetic , at lockdown I was a single mum myself with 2 children , one of who is severely autistic and I worked all of the lockdown non stop, same as most of the other tram members , so said person was at the bottom of the priority for holiday choice of dates last year because at the end of the day abusing a benefit is never ok .

I think that it is not always black and white - when I was a primary school teacher, my husband was told that he couldn't have any time off in the summer holidays, because it went to those with children first. He only wanted a week off, but others could take two or three weeks. Apparently as an adult I could book time off like anyone else - I don't know who they expected to teach their children then!

I think it’s unfair that you haven’t been able to have ANY annual leave in the summer. I also think if non parents have booked it first then that’s fine but businesses also need to be flexible with parents. I only take my annual leave in the school holidays because I have three little ones who need childcare and if I had to pay for childcare in the holidays it would cost about double what I earn in that day! So parents sometimes NEED flexibility. Obviously there are more of the school holidays than there is annual leave and therefore there are times when I do pay excessive amounts in childcare but to have to pay that all the time would render it pointless working! There is no one I can really rely on to help with childcare and I work reduced hours as it is but the school holidays cause me no end of stress and if I couldn’t take my leave during the holidays I would struggle so much.

YNBU - I've had many arguments with my manager over this. Just because I didn't have a child, doesn't mean I don't have family. We have nieces and nephews who we like to spend time with during school holidays. I remember back in early 2020, I requested a week off in October, it was clear in the office planner, as my mum was turning 70. Turns out it fell on half term and a parent MIGHT want it off. I highlighted company policy was first come first served and my mum was only 70once. It was granted.
I've worked every weekday Christmas Eve for 20 years, again the no child reason was used, but as I was child free I could have NYE off. Doesn't help when you are spending Christmas Day in another part of the country and can't travel until after 3pm. I was the last childless one in the department, but this year I'm on maternity leave, so someone with children is having to work it for a change.

@Mellowyellow222

I have always gone out of my may to allow colleagues with kids to have Christmas etc - but to be honest it is starting to annoy me.

With working from home I now find parents seem to believe they have an automatic right to disappear for the afternoon school run. If I said I am going for a non negotiable walk for half an hour at 3pm every day I would quickly be told i am required to attend meetings.

I do think work should be flexible, but I think some parents expect far too much.

Having children is a choice and a privilege. I shouldn’t have to work harder and longer to allow other people time off to enjoy family life simply because I don’t have children.

I feel attacked.

I do have to disappear for the school run but I start work at 7am to ensure the hours more than add up.

I always find it so depressing that these threads turn into people attacking their colleagues. If you don't like how leave is managed where you work then that is a management issue - don't blame individual people for booking the time they want, blame the system for sorting out clashes. It's like when people say that their colleagues who go on maternity leave 'leave them with extra work' - no, your employer failed to get adequate cover and you blaming each other rather than them is ideal for your employer and also will change nothing.

So yes when I give permission to holidays with my team if there are requests for school holidays I will always give them to parents first

If you were my manager I’d raise a grievance about this every single time and ultimately I’d leave for a workplace that didn’t give preferential treatment to people because they had reproduced.

@sammylady37

So yes when I give permission to holidays with my team if there are requests for school holidays I will always give them to parents first

If you were my manager I’d raise a grievance about this every single time and ultimately I’d leave for a workplace that didn’t give preferential treatment to people because they had reproduced.

So would I. Shocking 'management'.

@Dogmummy1980 can't quote your response. oh, I do know that bit everyone has alternative childcare and I'm not suggesting that people should. I'm well aware that it is a privilege for some. I was trying to think about what the practicalities and if it would be taken into account or not or if child's other parents would be taken into account.