Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

993 replies

KwestTurkey · 30/11/2021 22:38

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

OP posts:
rosyAndMoo · 02/12/2021 20:52

I have worked every other Christmas for the last 20 years, and every Christmas for 6 years before that… and that is Christmas Day… not finishing work on the Friday and maybe working a few days between Christmas and new year. I have a 12 year old son. I work for the NHS. This year my night shifts fall 24th,25th and 26th December and then 30,31st December and 1st, 2nd Jan. my son understands that he always goes to Nans on Boxing Day and has done whether I work or not hubby always works Boxing Day (retail). This year we will have our Christmas dinner on Christmas Eve before I go to work, then they will wait for me to get home Christmas Day morning to open presents, before I go to bed. My Christmas will be crap… but I wouldn’t expect a colleague who worked last Christmas to do two in a row. I’m off in full next year… so long as it is fair, having children shouldn’t come into in. We told Our son in previous years that Santa had written to us and he would be delivering his presents early/late so mum could be home with him… but he always had a few to open Christmas Day before or after I worked. There are ways around the working situation and I don’t believe unless you are devotedly religious and not working religious holidays was discussed before you accepted the job and is written into the contract, that you have any more or less right to expect that time off than anyone else childless or not. What annoyed me more is when someone asks for the same 5 or 10 days every year and expects people whose family live local to always cover them because they have to travel to see their family. Again, same rules should apply to all

JakeyRolling · 02/12/2021 20:52

@julieca

And all those saying Christmas is for kids, seem to forget that for some it is a religious occasion.
My grandfather was a highly religious church elder. Even he believed it was for the kids. He had rarely seen his own at Christmas due to being in the navy and it was a source of some regret.
julieca · 02/12/2021 21:00

@Werk

I have small children and do not agree that I should get priority at Christmas - I think it should be shared. You don't know what someone has going on in their lives.

Christmas is a pain though when you have kids because there aren't many clubs for them at that time. Equally though it must be a pain if you need/want to travel to family and only have the two days to go and come back.

I actually need more time off and flexibility for my elderly dad than I do my DC, he has appointments, crises and needs (dementia) which infiltrate into my working day more than my DC do.

Yes I found that. And I got way less flexibility than people did for young children. If the agencies say they have no carers, there is nothing you can do except go yourself. It's not like kids where you can beg friends parents to help or book emergency care with a stranger.
RoseMartha · 02/12/2021 21:02

I can see both sides.

I wouldn't want a week off in the summer holiday. Maybe a few days at Easter or Christmas though.

Personally for me when my dc have left education I will be holidaying when kids are in school as it is cheaper and quieter. I hate crowds. June and early July are still good times to go and is September.

julieca · 02/12/2021 21:03

@JakeyRolling I am not religious. My now dead Christian friend would have been very upset to miss a Christmas day service. She could have missed seeing family, but not missing church.
I assume your grandfather attended a church service on Christmas day on the boat? There will have been one.

julieca · 02/12/2021 21:04

My favoured time to go on holiday is early July. But my DP works in a job where he only gets school holidays off. So we will go away during the school holidays until we retire.

MrsFirth2006 · 02/12/2021 21:11

I’m also on the fence here as a parent. I agree everyone should have equal priority to annual leave but when mine were younger it was very hard to cover six weeks school holidays in the summer between costly nursery fees and fairly reluctant grandparents. I am a nurse and majority of the time have worked Christmas, bank holidays and weekends and on top of those if you then can’t get school holiday help it’s hard if you can’t have a chance at animal leave. That said, I do understand it’s our choice to have children and be working parents.

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/12/2021 21:16

MrsFirth2006

I’m also on the fence here as a parent“

Why? Every employee should be treated equally. Personal circumstances are irrelevant.

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 02/12/2021 21:25

My parents were a policeman and a nurse so we often had just one parent at home at Christmas and had to go to holiday clubs in the Summer holidays. We always had a nice family holiday as well though.

Tonkatol · 02/12/2021 21:26

Sorry, haven't RTFT. However, I don't think the question is that straightforward to answer.

I certainly don't think parents should automatically be given first dibs on holiday over Christmas and New Year and I say that as someone who worked as a Receptionist in Accident and Emergency when my children were small. My shifts were evenings and weekends and, in my 6 years there, only once did Christmas Day fall on my shift. I was offered the shift off by a colleague who didn't have children and was happy to cover my shift for me at double pay with time off in lieu. It was kind of her and I accepted, but would have worked it otherwise. Similarly, my shift fell on Christmas Eve on a number of occasions but I worked those as normal (finishing at 11pm/midnight).

Even with pre-school children, I was happy to book holiday out of the main school holidays, as was my husband. Prices of going anywhere, whether in this country or abroad are significantly cheaper outside of the main school holidays.

However, and this is where things get more complicated - once children are at school and the older they get, the more significant, it is increasingly difficult to be permitted to take them out of school for a holiday. Therefore, parents are restricted to being able to go away on holiday during the school holidays. There were a number of years when my children were younger that my husband didn't get in quick enough and so we were unable to go away, or could have a week at most. What used to frustrate me is that some people (both with and without children) would take three weeks over the course of the summer - with holiday at the beginning and then more at the end of the school holidays. To me, this is not fair but my husband is the sort that never likes to rock the boat.

Nowadays I have a daughter aged 15, so taking her GCSEs next year and my elder children all work. When we go away, it is usually my husband, myself and our two youngest daughters. My husband only has to work round his boss in terms of taking time off, so between them it works out fine.

However, my daughter works in retail and this year, since Easter, she has been unable to have a full week off during any school holidays. She has to work round 4 other people - none of them have children. However one person, who has been in the company for many years, decided to take 3 Mondays off in August (and Monday is the one day that absolutely has to be covered). She then booked a full week's holiday and finally, the last week of the holidays, she was having an operation, so had the next four weeks off.

As a direct result of this, we didn't go away over the summer - costs of going anywhere were extremely high and to not be able to go for a full week made it seem even more expensive. Obviously, this wasn't the case of a parent booking holiday, nor was my daughter a parent looking for holiday but highlights the unfairness of one person being able to book ahead (there are other issues to do with this, which aren't relevant to this thread).

So, whilst I think OP is right that parents shouldn't always be given preference over other employees, in an ideal world, employers would develop a system that is as fair as possible within their company and give and take between employees is also helpful. I did vote YABU because I think it is important for people to be able to have time together as a family - whether going away or not, but I don't think that means parents get overall control. I do agree with others questioning why people without children would want to go away in school holidays, but it's not always that straightforward - some people go away with teachers, who, like pupils, can only go during school holidays and there are others holidaying with friends/family who have children.

Certainly, if I wasn't governed by school holidays, there is no way I would choose to book to go away then - holidays both in this country and abroad are so much cheaper in June/early July or mid September, yet the weather is usually just as good as in the height of the summer.

I also realise that I am only talking about taking holiday for holiday purposes, not for childcare purposes but that is a whole different headache!

timeisnotaline · 02/12/2021 21:26

@MrsSkylerWhite

MrsFirth2006

I’m also on the fence here as a parent“

Why? Every employee should be treated equally. Personal circumstances are irrelevant.

That’s actually completely untrue. Adjustments are required to be made for disabilities, for all protected characteristics. I’m pregnant and as it gets harder to move I won’t have to go into the office. I am booking special leave for prenatal appointments I had this week. Parental leave is specifically for parents. Fair isn’t equal and the law recognises this.
tigger1001 · 02/12/2021 21:27

@MrsSkylerWhite

MrsFirth2006

I’m also on the fence here as a parent“

Why? Every employee should be treated equally. Personal circumstances are irrelevant.

I agree. All employees should be treated equally.
KosherDill · 02/12/2021 21:29

Kids who still believe in Father Christmas wouldn't know the difference if their presents arrived Dec 23, Dec 27 or New Years Day for that matter, if their parents simply designated an available day as Christmas morning.

BoredZelda · 02/12/2021 21:39

Why? Every employee should be treated equally. Personal circumstances are irrelevant.

So no allowances for disabled employees? Everyone should work the same hours regardless? No difference between junior members of staff who have just joined and more senior staff when seniority brings a different responsibility? Your gran dies, or your boiler breaks down or your dog was sick all over the kitchen, nope, everyone at their desk for 8 hours no matter what. What a load of codswallop.

Staff should be treated in a way that is equitable. That doesn’t mean staff should all be treated the same.

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/12/2021 21:42

That’s actually completely untrue. Adjustments are required to be made for disabilities, for all protected characteristics. I’m pregnant and as it gets harder to move I won’t have to go into the office. I am booking special leave for prenatal appointments I had this week. Parental leave is specifically for parents. Fair isn’t equal and the law recognises this“

Entirely different from parents with existing children being given special treatment. Why should I have to miss visiting my elderly parents because someone else wants to go to a nativity play?

I have children. I took my turn.

BoredZelda · 02/12/2021 21:46

Kids who still believe in Father Christmas wouldn't know the difference if their presents arrived Dec 23, Dec 27 or New Years Day for that matter, if their parents simply designated an available day as Christmas morning.

Ridiculous. Of course small children know what the date is. Don’t you think they have calendars in school? Nobody has a calendar at home? The date will be on whatever devices they use in the house. They talk about Christmas on children’s telly. And they all know for weeks how many sleeps til Christmas. Or are you one of those who spouts the “beyond 5 they never believe in Santa” nonsense

timeisnotaline · 02/12/2021 21:46

@MrsSkylerWhite

That’s actually completely untrue. Adjustments are required to be made for disabilities, for all protected characteristics. I’m pregnant and as it gets harder to move I won’t have to go into the office. I am booking special leave for prenatal appointments I had this week. Parental leave is specifically for parents. Fair isn’t equal and the law recognises this“

Entirely different from parents with existing children being given special treatment. Why should I have to miss visiting my elderly parents because someone else wants to go to a nativity play?

I have children. I took my turn.

I’m just clarifying for the poster who said everyone should be treated absolutely equally. Parental leave is relevant for existing children. I’m sorry if you did your parenting time without having access to it, but that doesn’t mean you can ignore it now. Just like I’m so sorry for all the women who didn’t have any maternity leave in my mum’s generation but I’m not handing back mine. I don’t think parents should have preference for Christmas by the way. But I am very glad to work in a job where we get Christmas Day off, and I think for single parents a good employer has to acknowledge there is no childcare to be found on some days, and parents can’t legally tell their young child be good and I’ll be back in 9 hours, sometimes there are no options.
Parker231 · 02/12/2021 21:47

Adjustments are made for protected characteristics - this does not include a parent having a priority for holidays - you take your turn like anyone else. Sometimes you’ll get the holidays you want - other times you won’t.

BoredZelda · 02/12/2021 21:47

Entirely different from parents with existing children being given special treatment. Why should I have to miss visiting my elderly parents because someone else wants to go to a nativity play?

Why would you visit your elderly parents on a Tuesday morning mid December rather than going at the weekend or after work?

AudacityBaby · 02/12/2021 21:48

The argument at my workplace is that not giving parents priority risks an indirect discrimination claim on the basis that women tend to be primary caters and sex is a protected characteristic.

Which is ironic as my workplace is heavily female-dominated so the childless people left picking up the slack are also primarily female. Less easy to build a legal argument though so employer isn’t bothered.

slashlover · 02/12/2021 21:48

That’s actually completely untrue. Adjustments are required to be made for disabilities, for all protected characteristics. I’m pregnant and as it gets harder to move I won’t have to go into the office. I am booking special leave for prenatal appointments I had this week. Parental leave is specifically for parents. Fair isn’t equal and the law recognises this.

Pregnancy and maternity are a protected characteristic, having kids isn't. How dare you equate your CHOICE to have a baby to having a disability.

BoredZelda · 02/12/2021 21:50

Adjustments are made for protected characteristics - this does not include a parent having a priority for holidays

Again as people here never seem to understand how an Internet forum works - if a poster quotes a specific comment, it is in relation to that specific quote. My comment was regarding the poster who said all employees should be treated “equally”

you take your turn like anyone else. Sometimes you’ll get the holidays you want - other times you won’t.

“Sometimes you’ll be able to provide childcare for your children when there is no alternative, other times you won’t”

fakereview · 02/12/2021 21:52

However one person, who has been in the company for many years, decided to take 3 Mondays off in August (and Monday is the one day that absolutely has to be covered

Had I been in this situation I'd have gone away Tuesday to Saturday (or Sunday). There's no law that says a holiday has to be at least a week. The holidays are 13 weeks long and you can take some time off sometime. Maybe you couldn't do 2 weeks in Greece but there are many other options.

BoredZelda · 02/12/2021 21:52

How dare you equate your CHOICE to have a baby to having a disability.

Actually, in my situation, my CHOICE to have a baby resulted in me having a child with a disability. So for me there’s little difference. My work life is impacted in a similar way as if I did have a disability, it’s just that it’s my daughter’s difficulties that mean I can’t just accept a no when it comes to booking holidays.

fakereview · 02/12/2021 21:53

The argument at my workplace is that not giving parents priority risks an indirect discrimination claim on the basis that women tend to be primary caters and sex is a protected characteristic

what about women who are carers of elderly parents but don't have children themselves? Women also tend to be carers the other direction?

Swipe left for the next trending thread