AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

[quote Badunkadunk]@julieca it’s called reality. If people want to make things so awkward for working parents that they either choose to bow out of the work place or having kids that’s fatal for an (ageing) society in terms of tax receipts, both today and in the future. The fact of the matter is that working parents work harder than most and given they exist on a constant treadmill with their kids it’s a pretty miserly person who would seek to make family holidays harder for them to achieve. And for the avoidance of doubt, I really don’t care what strangers on social media think of my views.[/quote]
Work harder in life, or work harder in their jobs? My colleagues who are parents do school runs twice a day, don’t work outside 9-5, don’t work weekends, and refuse to go on any emergency rotas. I work 8-6 or 7 most days, because the work is calculated by reference to a team of full timers, when the majority of it is people claiming full time pay for part time hours. I don’t doubt that I work with some outliers but the suggestion that parents are the harder working employees is hilarious to me.

@Ciaobaby92 I do hope that the government legalises euthanasia. I’ve no intention of sitting in a nursing home needing my bum wiped by someone’s child who was born out of a purely altruistic desire to provide taxpayers and care workers.

Also because it would end this bloody argument that I’m being somehow done a favour and need to show gratitude by having no bloody Christmases until the end of time.

I have to say that as a parent of 2 children I have never received preferential treatment when booking holiday at work and I never expected to. I do understand that their are times when plans go wrong and adjustments have to be made when childcare fails, and it happens to us all at some point. I don't agree that parents should get preferential treatment when booking holidays in general, childcare planning is the bane of all working parents lives but it is a necessity.

@AudacityBaby why do you put up with working longer and more unsociable hours for the same pay? I’d leave a job like that.

Meh, I try to just not be a dick and work around those who need certain dates for childcare. People would be just as quick to judge if mothers claimed benefits rather than attempt to work around the constant school holidays, in service days and sickness. Women can’t win.

The fact of the matter is that working parents work harder than most and given they exist on a constant treadmill with their kids…

The fact of the matter is that your first claim is not factual at all. And if life is such a ‘constant treadmill’ the fact is that it is that way because they chose to be a parent. They chose to get on that treadmill. That’s a lifestyle choice. I don’t expect parents or anybody else to facilitate my lifestyle choices at their expense and I don't expect to have to facilitate anyone else’s lifestyle choices at my expense.

[quote Whatinthelord]@AudacityBaby why do you put up with working longer and more unsociable hours for the same pay? I’d leave a job like that.[/quote]
I’m trying to. I’ve been trying to for some time but vacancies are extremely few and far between. I work in a niche area of a profession and I enjoy the work (if not the colleagues). I’m single and the only person keeping a roof over my head. My bills need paying, so.

Thing is that our current 9-5 Monday to Friday working arrangement was set up when there was always someone at home doing the “domestic” jobs. With housing prices as they are that model is no longer sustainable as in the vast majority of households both parents need to work. In the UK childcare is ridiculously expensive and like another mortgage. Lots of places don’t have holiday clubs so many parents have no choice but to take time off during peak holiday times. Their only option is to use their holiday to cover childcare as they can’t leave their children alone at home. There isn’t enough flexible working in the UK or shared parental leave and it unfairly impacts women in the workforce. As unfortunately childcare does seem to be viewed as the mothers role. We saw this a lot during lockdowns where mothers were overly burdened with juggling work and home schooling. The other option is people don’t have kids so as to never burden their colleagues. It’s because of the working practices and attitudes that there isn’t proper equality in the workplace. Why women are overlooked for premonition if they are of childbearing age, because of the hassle of childcare. What we really need to do is totally overhaul the way we look at work and make it a more fair and equal place for women that choose to be parents.

I am really interested in everyone’s opinions reading this both as a mum and a manager who oversees annual leave requests.
Colleagues with school age children ALWAYS get leave requests in early so on first-come-first-serve are agreed and I understand the need to plan around term times (own DC is not yet school age so not had to cross this bridge yet!).

We don’t agree any A/L for anyone over Christmas before the whole team submits requests in Sept and this seems fair and generally everyone is considerate of each other I.e offers to work if last year off and find childless colleagues tend to prefer to work Christmas Eve and take off time between Christmas and New Year.

Summer holidays however is a different kettle of fish and it’s a free for all with those with children thinking they are entitled to take weeks at a time. I personally think this is really cheeky and unfair.

@frogswimming

I think the summer and Easter holidays are long so there should not be an issue, everyone should be able to take the time off they want and negotiate like reasonable adults.

For Christmas Day, I do think non parents should give parents priority. Christmas morning is special for children who still believe in Father Christmas. I'd judge non parents who wouldn't make allowances if that meant they were denying young children one Christmas morning that magic for one of the few years it matters. Non parents can have a special day with their loved ones anytime over the two weeks of Christmas. They are adults who can rationalise. Childcare is available for other days not on Christmas days. I'd just think they were selfish and miserable for not being accommodating. It doesn't affect me as workplace closed over Christmas but that's what i'd think.

With (the bare minimum of) due respect, if someone said to my face that I should give them priority for Christmas day off work because I was a non-parent and therefore their day was more important than mine, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and book it off even harder.

What is 'selfish' is assuming everyone else should value your children's Christmas experience as highly as you do - in fact, highly enough to put it over their own equally legitimate wish to have Christmas off. Self-absorbed nonsense.

@sarralim

Well, without kids, no society. I agree that holidays should be shared - but it's sad to see so many use this argument: having kids was YOUR decision. No. Having kids is also a societal decision.

You didn't have kids because of a societal decision, you had them because you wanted them.

It’s because we need to find child care in the school holidays that’s all, I think it should be shared equally.

I work in a small family business and I wouldn’t dream of having time off over Christmas or during school holidays if I can help it.
My children are grown up and I think it’s nicer for my colleagues with children to be at home with them if they choose

[quote AudacityBaby]@Ciaobaby92 I do hope that the government legalises euthanasia. I’ve no intention of sitting in a nursing home needing my bum wiped by someone’s child who was born out of a purely altruistic desire to provide taxpayers and care workers.

Also because it would end this bloody argument that I’m being somehow done a favour and need to show gratitude by having no bloody Christmases until the end of time.[/quote]
I am right there with you. I would much rather be allowed to enjoy life in the present, than be expected to give it all up for some vague promise of future ass wiping.

Christmas Day really isn't the end of the world unless you're stuffed for childcare. DH has worked several Christmas Days since we had kids and we just work around his availability. Much more important for single people away from family not to be stuck alone. Generally someone would invite whoever was on call for Christmas Day and anyone without family around for Christmas Lunch and we'd all have a cheerful sober afternoon

[quote Badunkadunk]@biscuitsforcheese lol - you’ve definitely confused me with someone who gives a hoot what you think. Unlike you, we seem to have no problem working around each other’s needs in my workplace. Maybe if you adjusted your sparkling attitude you might find more willing to work around yours. Children’s education contributes to the future economy and wealth of the nation, as well as their ability to pay taxes to ensure your arse is wiped.[/quote]
I pay my taxes which pay for you to give birth, your kids education and their medical needs. Why does everyone talk about how their kids are going to be wiping bums etc. nobody ever think their kids are going to end up in jail, on drugs or not working.

I think there's a fine line between accepting that parents have less flexibility and also accepting that there are some parents who absolutely take the piss in regards to this.
I've experienced it from both sides, 12 working years as a non-parent, then the juggling of the parenting years, and now with grown up DC.
I remember an ex colleague who used to whine and moan about how difficult it was as a mother, and demanded first dibs of all time off. She had never been flexible pre-parenthood, so I think it's fair to assume she's just a selfish cow.
I would never willingly take a holiday in the school holidays now, purely for cost reasons, we've done our years of the school holiday premiums!
I did find out years ago that my particularly cuntish boss had complained that I was "always" taking time off with my sick children. He made it sound like I had a tribe of them! And in actual fact in three years, I had only ever taken one afternoon off, when my 8 year old broke her finger at school. He did have form for his dislike of working mothers, though.

What pisses me off is that most parents expect child free colleagues to give them first dibs at school holidays, Xmas etc,which I understand. I usually take September as my "summer" holiday. I also used to offer to work Xmas as I don't like Xmas, but sometimes wanted Xmas as family dmfrom Englandshire would be up. The whinging was pathetic from parents!!
And heaven help me on the odd occasion I asked for summer holidays when my nieces and nephews were off so I could do something with them...

Parents should really get over themselves. And be flexible so that colleagues can have a, choice too.

@ClaudiasWinkleMan I expect fathers to do their share as well.

Aw @housemaus that’s not very kind of you! Remember us lesser beings need to be nice and kind and considerate and kind and thoughtful and not mean and nice and kind and kind and

I personally think this is really cheeky and unfair.

So what exactly do you suggest I do with my disabled daughter for 13 weeks of school holidays when there is little to no provision for kids like her in my area during school holidays? I use family for 4 of those weeks which leaves 9 weeks for my husband and I to cover with our 10 weeks of holiday between us. That’s not including they days off we have to take to cover appointments, therapies etc with her. We can’t use parental leave as we need to keep that for her hospital stays.

Sometimes that means I have to take 3 separate weeks during the summer holidays. But if you have another solution I’d love to hear it.

Sure I chose to have a child, but I never thought there would be a lack of school holiday provision. Many people have found the same thing for non disabled kids due to budget cuts in local authorities and the hideous cost of private childcare options over the holidays.

@SouthernMamma

It's not a personal choice whether to have children, like deciding whether to have a conservatory done. We are biologically determined to do this, just like as if we were aardvarks or peacocks. We're animals!

Of course it is a personal choice. Otherwise no one would choose not to do it.

The fact of the matter is that working parents work harder than most

Harder than 'most' @Badunkadunk? If by 'most' you mean people without children, why not just have the courage of your convictions and say so?

Pre kids never took holidays during school holidays, likewise until the eldest started school. Thereafter yes, but rarely abroad, and I tended to do some work when on holiday anyway, especially with the spread of mobile phones and the internet (clearly work options when out of the office were limited without either). Also rarely went away for more than a week at a time.
The business I was in at that time managed to juggle the school holiday issue pretty well among the staff, and I don't recall any rows or froideur over it.

@BoredZelda I think when you take a job you and your DH need to say you need this time off. If the employer agrees it, then fair enough.