AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

Wasn't bothered about the 6 weeks in summer but Christmas is important to everyone. Just because you dont have children desn't mean you dont have family.

No they shouldn't.
What I found though was that apart from Christmas, where everyone gave me there preference and I allocated, it was the parents that booked early cos they had to plan.

@SouthernMamma

It's not a personal choice whether to have children, like deciding whether to have a conservatory done. We are biologically determined to do this, just like as if we were aardvarks or peacocks. We're animals!

Of course it’s a personal choice. You have agency and bodily autonomy. You can override any biological drive to breed. You know, the way some people choose to limit the number of children they have, or space them out or have none at all, depending on their circumstances? You have heard of contraception, haven’t you?

Ahh, tis the season for the plethora of posts about this.

I need the holidays to cover school holidays and to be able to go away for Christmas to our timeshare. I make my employer aware of this when I join a company and how they manage that is their business. If non parents want to do the same for whatever reason, they should speak to their employer about it, not blame parents for doing what they need to.

@biscuitsforcheese lol - you’ve definitely confused me with someone who gives a hoot what you think. Unlike you, we seem to have no problem working around each other’s needs in my workplace. Maybe if you adjusted your sparkling attitude you might find more willing to work around yours. Children’s education contributes to the future economy and wealth of the nation, as well as their ability to pay taxes to ensure your arse is wiped.

I don’t think parents should have more of a priority but first to request is equally unfair.
I worked with a colleague who would book the entire year in the 1st week of Jan. Often with two separate 7 or 10 day bookings in the summer holidays leaving no chance for me to book 2 weeks without overlapping. My husband’s job meant we couldn’t book all holidays for the year in advance. We resolved it amicably by separating the school breaks into sections. E.g. if she had Easter break she couldn’t also book October etc.

So while I agree parents shouldn’t get priority over those without kids it should still be within a framework where there’s still opportunity to book a holiday for those who don’t get in first

Wanting leave isn’t preferential treatment. Parents cover time non parents take so it should work both ways. I’ve had to isolate twice because someone had covid in both my kids classes, should someone with no children hold that against me? No. If an employer is happy to take on someone with young children then they should accept it comes with implications now and again, and half terms. Even more so in my case as a single mum.

Rota system best for all. If you dont want it then next on list. (Christmas)

If an employer is happy to take on someone with young children then they should accept it comes with implications now and again, and half terms. Even more so in my case as a single mum

And if an employer wasn’t happy to take on someone with young children because of those implications would you think that was fair enough or would you feel discriminated against?

What I found though was that apart from Christmas, where everyone gave me there preference and I allocated, it was the parents that booked early cos they had to plan.

Yep. This is my experience too. Parents book early to ensure they have holidays then when non parents try to book last minute they complain they can’t get the days they want.

In principle yes.
In reality sometimes

Small companies I can't imagine have a choice especially if their employees are mostly parents.
Large companies could do it more easily. One ex employer was 1st 2 ask gets it except for three days 25/12, 26/12, 1/1.
On these days all singles wanting to work were put in a hat and drawn out... Double time and if I remember right 2.5 X on Xmas day so it was wanted (worked out well more carrot less stick)

I’ve been the employee covering for those with children , but I doubt ill get that consideration back
After having it for years, I asked if we could break up the day -doing a few hours each ? Still no

I left not long after as I was sick of getting the piss taken.
I now work a rota where one of the staff can keep having Xmas and new year off, and no management seems to mind
So now I don’t do favours for anyone.
And as I said: I don’t expect any care from ( a lot ) of non children families.

I’d blame your company for such a ridiculous rule, not the parents! I work in care and have kids and I still work all over the Holidays and would never expect special treatment. I’ve volunteered to work a bit of Xmas again this year as nobody was willing to cover it and my manager is very much, “people With young kids shouldn’t be working”. But it’s my choice and I’m happy to help. The kids won’t miss me for a few hours. It seems to be the people with grown up children who seem to think they deserve special treatment.

Annual leave should never be given as priority to parents. But there's absolutely nothing stopping the parent taking parental leave instead at the same time as someone on annual leave. It's a lawful right. The difference is, it's unpaid. So a) the employer should be communicating this with the parent and b) the parent should accept that if annual leave can't be used (paid) then they need to take it unpaid.
Happened to me recently. 2 of my team had the whole of half term booked as annual leave. One has no school age kids. They didn't fancy giving up their annual leave as within their right so I took it as unpaid parental leave instead as within my right. I'm happy both ways. I get to care for my child and I still had holidays to take at another time.

I’m on the fence. Our society is stupid about childcare. We just assume parents should make it work while offering few allowances. So while I don’t think they should necessarily get priority, I think there should be an understanding that people with children sometimes need certain times to look after them.

I have worked Xmas a few times to help co workers with kids, before I had my son. I don’t have any immediate family nearby so one day or the other makes no difference to me.

And if an employer wasn’t happy to take on someone with young children because of those implications would you think that was fair enough or would you feel discriminated against?

Nope. Same with my flexible working request. They are under no obligation to honour it. I had one turn me down on the basis they didn’t believe it would work for their business. That’s fine by me as if it wouldn’t work for them then I couldn’t work for them. Employers who did offer me the job, looked at my CV and realised my experience was valuable to them and decided they could offer what I was asking for. I never considered it as discriminatory under the law.

Before WFH I had no choice but to book the entire Christmas period off as my childcare provider was closed and I didn't have an alternative. If I was refused I would've had to take emergency time off for dependents anyway but luckily my employer was always very understanding and never questioned my requests. Now I can be more flexible but I still want Xmas eve off as it is a special time with kids and I think it would be unfair on the kids to prioritise work over such a special time with them. Before having kids I worked Xmas eve no problem and I will again when the kids are much older but no I'm not missing these special moments when they're young just because of work.

YANBU
I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if I’m just going to repeat what someone else has said.
Before I had my babies I was cabin crew. This meant working through Christmas/Easter/bank holidays/birthdays etc. I once had an argument with a colleague who had babies and who stated that she should never have to work Christmas because of this and would call in sick if she was rostered such. She wasn’t alone in this, many colleagues did the same. I may not have had babies, but I still would have liked to be home for Christmas with my partner or parents.
When I had kids, I knew I no wouldn’t want to work with very important holidays, so I left to find something else.

I was thinking along the lines of "no parents shouldn't be given preferential treatment" but actually deep down I probably don't agree with that.

Before I had kids I always happily worked around my colleagues that were parents. I'd have my main holiday in September and usually worked Xmas eve and boxing day

These days I part time but on taking the job agreed with management that I'd be taking all my holidays within school holidays as my dh is a farmer and we barely see him in the holidays Easter through to October. Sounds bad but I don't really care what others do, I negotiated this when taking the job (office is shut for 2 weeks over Christmas though so everyone wins there)

YANBU in general, BUT; It is not unreasonable for parents to /ask/ childfree colleagues to /consider/ the fact that parents are constrained by school holidays and other factors, and /if they reasonably can/ to try and support them. Perhaps not even unreasonable to ask an employer to make that request generally.

That said, it's hard to imagine any non-parent in their right mind choosing to book travel or holiday accommodation during school holidays if they have the option not to!

As for the specific example you started with, assuming this is paid leave, the request might not have been at all CF-ish if it was "I wondered if you would maybe like to sell me any of your spare leave?" If the suggestion was that no money change hands then it's well beyond CF, and into the realms of WTF have you been smoking?

Apologies for typos above!

I prefer "Equity" which means bringing people to the same level, which may mean offering special provision for those who have greater needs. I think parents of young children fit that category.
A parent’s need is greater than mine to see (example) a terminally ill family member at Christmas? By whose lights?

I chose to have my children. Why does this give me the right to have preferential treatment. My husband and myself ran a business and I also worked full time for another company whilst we were growing our own business. I worked school holidays and Christmas day in turn with all the other employees. We did have some colleagues who always said I have chidren why should I work Christmas Day. Funny thing is these same colleagues were still saying the same thing years later when their kids were teenagers.

No, I don't think we should be given preferential treatment to be honest. Are our child free colleagues lives less important than ours ?? I Definitely not !! We did choose to have them after all !!

Holidays no, but I'd say Christmas yes because as far as I'm concerned it's for kids.

As a Scot I was raised with more importance placed on new year, so for seven years pre-children I volunteered to work Christmas Day and Boxing Day on condition I got new year off.

Since I had DS (3) it's the other way about. My two child-free colleagues are happy with this arrangement as it means they can go out on the piss.