AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

I think its a management issue. They should be prepared to pay double on certain days to even out the demand for days off.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

I book my son into holiday club, but kids do like to spend time with their parents in the holidays too, and if schools were a bit more lenient about when you can take your kids on holiday, it would give non-parents more choice too. I think that is a huge factor in the school holidays possibly being booked up by parents, if that is the case at your work

This ^^

Parents want to spend some time with their kids in the holidays, as do kids. Many parents use breakfast clubs and after school clubs in order to work, so having a week off together in the holidays can be incredibly important to the family unit. Especially holidays like Christmas, which is a magical time for kids. I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares to wanting to spend some time with your child. Young kids don’t understand why you’re often unavailable or absent, or can’t watch them open their stocking year after year. It’s one reason why so many parents leave jobs in the NHS and retail. Then everyone complains about staff shortages! Luckily many NHS teams do try to prioritise parents, offering flexible working patterns and term time only contracts. Or if a parent simply cannot get childcare at Christmas, and 2 people have requested it off, the manager is likely to rota in the person who can actually work that day.

Yes, lucky you that the NHS likes to treat two sets of employees differently solely on the basis of whether they have working reproductive organs and therefore magic in your lives. It'd be just horrible if there weren't childless people who can be made to come in and pick up all of the slack to allow you your flexibility.

No, they shouldn’t. Though, like a pp I will always swap my holidays (they are pre-booked for us in my role) if they fall in school holidays as I couldn’t think of a worse time to go as a childless couple! I would also swap shifts for colleagues with DC, although I’ve never been pressured into it, I’d it’s parents evening/doctor appointments/Christmas Eve.

I did work in an education setting once and asked to drop to term time only. The first thing my manager said when I discussed it with her was “Why? You don’t have children!” Like, I couldn’t possibly want more free time for ME 🙄

@FateHasRedesignedMost

I book my son into holiday club, but kids do like to spend time with their parents in the holidays too, and if schools were a bit more lenient about when you can take your kids on holiday, it would give non-parents more choice too. I think that is a huge factor in the school holidays possibly being booked up by parents, if that is the case at your work

This ^^

Parents want to spend some time with their kids in the holidays, as do kids. Many parents use breakfast clubs and after school clubs in order to work, so having a week off together in the holidays can be incredibly important to the family unit. Especially holidays like Christmas, which is a magical time for kids. I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares to wanting to spend some time with your child. Young kids don’t understand why you’re often unavailable or absent, or can’t watch them open their stocking year after year. It’s one reason why so many parents leave jobs in the NHS and retail. Then everyone complains about staff shortages! Luckily many NHS teams do try to prioritise parents, offering flexible working patterns and term time only contracts. Or if a parent simply cannot get childcare at Christmas, and 2 people have requested it off, the manager is likely to rota in the person who can actually work that day.

I grew up in a family that worked in services that run 24/7/365 and where someone was usually at work, I didn't understand because I didn't know any better as it was just normal for me, there was nothing to understand because no one made a big deal out of it. My DD is the same, because it's just normal in our family. It's only a big deal if you make it so where children are concerned. I had the "Mummy don't go to work" like every other parent, but no more at Christmas than any other time of year and the reply was the same whatever the time of year "I need to go to work today". I'm always willing to try and help colleagues struggling with genuine childcare issues around the times that schools etc are shut, but not when they have the attitude that spending every single Christmas with their child is their right to my detriment meaning I don't get to spend any time with my family at all because they are older and I get to spend it on my own to facilitate that. If you are in a job that requires full coverage all the time then you accept that you need to do something around that time, or leave the job, not expect your colleagues to facilitate your wants to their own detriment.

In my organisation there are a few term time workers . This is something you can apply for as part of flexible working but it will be reviewed once your children are of an age not to news holiday care (unless they have additional needs). Other types of flexible working patterns are available to people with other care commitments eg elderly parents, or to anyone who wants a better work-life balance .

Taking that into consideration other staff are asked to submit leave requests for busy times (eg over Christmas) and if too many requests then those who didn't take leave last year will be prioritised for this.

Mostly, those people who don't have children will take minimal leave during school summer holidays . I feel I have benefited from term time working when I had young DC so it's someone else's turn now. Plus it's cheaper to holiday at other times - and June and September often have nicer weather than August .

My partner works for a very small company (in retail) and booking annual leave is difficult. I think this is partly because they have no proper system in place for leave, but there does seem to be the assumption that, as he has no children, he doesn't need to take any time off.
His boss and another colleague both tried to book the 17th December-January 2nd off for Christmas, meaning that my partner would have to work on his own everyday. The only day he would have off is Christmas, when the store is closed. I thought that was taking the piss, and it happens with other school holidays too. I work in a school so would like to spend a day or two with my partner!
Luckily someone seems to have realised that wouldn't be fair and he should have a couple of days off in week before Christmas.

I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares to wanting to spend some time with your child

But I am my mum's child!

And if you don't have close family a friend counts just as much.

kids do like to spend time with their parents in the holidays too, and if schools were a bit more lenient about when you can take your kids on holiday, it would give non-parents more choice too

there are 13 weeks of school holidays a year and more in private schools

Well yeah, if you choose a nursery that’s closed on days you work of course you need to organise that in advance! Whether that’s sourcing a babysitter or nanny and saving up to pay for that or organising childcare with someone you know

I am not sure "choice" really comes into it. Most childcare does not operate between Christmas and New year. My son's childminder took that week off.

I am a parent and I don't believe that means I should get first dibs on annual leave.

@StrawBeretMoose

Agree with *@audweb*

Plenty of people without children might wish to have school holidays off, maybe their partner is a teacher so that's when they can go on holiday together, maybe try want to visit family with children when the children are off school.

I've seen people be particularly nasty about single people requesting leave over Christmas, when surely they might be travelling to visit family as logistically easier.

That's exactly why the policy where I work is that the people who weren't off at Xmas/Easter/summer holidays get first pick of those weeks the following year.

My dad worked many Christmases I was younger. They worked a set shift pattern with a shit down in summer so if your shift was Christmas Day then that was that. We just worked Christmas round his shift, if he was day shift we’d get up early do he could see us open our presents before he left then have dinner when he got home in the evening. If he was nightshift we’d wait till he got home to open our presents in the morning. He’d then go for a kip and we’d have dinner once he got up. If he was back shift we’d open presents and have lunch together before he left.

Christmas should be fair unless there are specific caring responsibilities. Eg, single parents might struggle to cover the 27th if nurseries and holiday clubs are closed. Many people will want to be travelling to see family regardless of whether they have children or not.

summer holidays have never actually been an issue in any workplace I’ve been in because vast majority of child free people don’t tend to want to be off in the school holidays. Christmas and then Easter tend to be more of a pinch point.

“I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares to wanting to spend some time with your child. “

So me wanting to visit my dad, in his 90s, is less important than others spending time with kids?

Especially holidays like Christmas, which is a magical time for kids. I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares

I’ll tell that to my friend who has cancer and has been told this is her last Christmas. She lives several trains away from me and I would like to spend her last Christmas looking after her and her children.
‘Sorry seeing a friend this xmas comes after those with children, might not see you alive again bye’

@KwestTurkey

Especially holidays like Christmas, which is a magical time for kids. I don’t think wanting to visit a parent or friend quite compares

It's this I hate.

It might not compare to you but you don't get to tell anyone else that it doesn't for them. It's not up to your colleagues to make sure you get to spend a 'magical Christmas' with your kids for the next however many years. I'm sure to them, spending time with family or friends is higher up on their priority list than your children and that is entirely understandable I would hope to most people.

Absolutely! I’m on my own, and haven’t been able to have kids. Do I matter so much less, that it’s ok for me to spend Xmas alone again? Because that’s what would likely happen if I didn’t get my chance to take the time off. Saying that, I have ruffled feathers this year, as my sister and BiL are visiting from overseas, and have taken the week before Xmas off, to spend with them. My colleagues are grumbling, because ‘Holla always works right up to when we close on Xmas Eve…’ sorry. Not this year. I’ve done it for the last 6…, think I’m due a turn at being off. (I’m still doing the 27 -31 on call cover…)

Also, my (other single) friend I usually go on holiday with in the summer is a teacher. So, I have to fit around her. Given there 7 weeks in the summer, I think we can manage to all get the leave we are due….
I do have one colleague who is a single parent, and I get that it’s tough; but I’ve covered for her, first thing in the AM, over holidays, later in the evenings, and all of the months of home schooling. She’s perfectly lovely, and very grateful, but when she moans she can’t get her preferred data/weeks off (one of us has to be there), I do roll my eyes a bit.

@KosherDill

What part of no support network did you not understand? My family are dead, I live rurally with no childcare availablen on Christmas day and dc are disabled so require far more care. I couldn't conjure up people/services that don't exist.

If there is physically no one available to care for dependants what would you suggest I should have done? Of course parents/carers should take priority in these circumstances.

You are lucky you've never been in such a position

There are people for whom Christmas day is a religious festival.

I think employers have to realise if you employ a parent, then there is a good case your staff will need time off in school holidays. I know one place hire it's own nursery and set it up so parents got Government help on the bills, I think this is what any bigger company could do to help their staff, They could always offer place to near by companies as well, maybe being nice does improve an office ,

@Bollindger all you are doing is making a good case for employers to discriminate against mothers.

I am really fortunate that my place of work closes on Christmas eve and opens after the bank holiday in January. So no fighting about who was off last year etc.

Other holidays are first come first served basis and as a relatively small company it's worked well.

But parents shouldn't get priority over others for leave. Everyone is entitled to their leave and shouldn't need to justify why they want x date off.

[quote Willyoujustbequiet]@KosherDill

What part of no support network did you not understand? My family are dead, I live rurally with no childcare availablen on Christmas day and dc are disabled so require far more care. I couldn't conjure up people/services that don't exist.

If there is physically no one available to care for dependants what would you suggest I should have done? Of course parents/carers should take priority in these circumstances.

You are lucky you've never been in such a position[/quote]
I have every sympathy for your position, but it’s not up to your colleagues to sacrifice their holidays for you for the duration of your time at your workplace. It isn’t their problem to sort out.

Another poster talking about the benefits of being nice. Has anyone actually offered any examples of the niceness coming back to employees without kids? It always seems to go one way, how peculiar…!

This is exactly why I became a sahm years ago- the stress of trying to keep under the radar and not be the problem employee because I had kids was breaking me- I worked extra hours where I could and saved holidays but still when inevitably the kids got sick other people had to pick up my slack and I could feel it. Now I'm in retail I see the same in dh. Parents shouldn't be treated differently and I'm so sorry any of you have had the 'but I have kids' thing thrown at you, that's not fair but ... I dont know, this is just such an angry thread ...