AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

You might be able to claim sex discrimination for not getting suitable holidays as it had a greater effect on women.
I work in retail and only have Christmas day and Stephen's day off, dh is using holidays, he keeps getting huffy 'well for some' comments even though it's his first time taking it off

As someone who cannot have children my time would never come!

I have offered to cover Christmas etc... many times and I generally avoid holidays when the schools are off - so I have done more than my fair share in terms of allowing parents to have time off when it is a priority to them - and I don't mind that generally speaking.

What DOES annoy me, however, is when it is then simply expected and the "but I have children" card is played if I DARE to want to have Christmas off - like having children is some burden that was thrust upon them without any choice in the matter and like I am somehow a lesser human being because I don't have them. Ultimately having children is a choice and things like Christmas, holidays, childcare etc... are responsibilities that come with that choice.

If I make the offer to cover Christmas and holidays then I do so more for the kids than the parents and if those who enjoy that time off don't treat it as an entitlement, then I'm usually pretty happy to do so. If they start to demand it and get rude and entitled about it though, I will immediately refer to the many years I have worked Christmas to make damn sure I get it off.

I don't think it should be an automatic right - I think turn about works fine generally speaking and if people are reasonable and gracious, then most workers have a bit of give and take. Most places I've worked have had a rota - if you worked Xmas last year - you get first refusal to have it off the next year. So for several years I just agreed to work Christmas every year straight. I tend to do that unless I really want it off for a particular reason. Gives me a lot of leverage when I DO want it off though - especially if anyone starts getting demanding.

A non-working parent in each house for 16 years? Are you going to pay extra tax for that? Part time employees pay a good wedge, what % of tax increase would be needed for it? Or would you rather only the wealthy breed?

I have to say I don't spend time wondering what tax implications sahp have on me. Are you suggesting I should be pissed of at sahm and blame them for me paying tax?

I have kids, always worked. I don't hold it against sahp.

Again, wanting Christmas off or summer holidays is often not about childcare. Often the parent has other people, including the other parent available. But they just want time off when they want it. And then believe they should be priortised.

How many parents do you believe, don't work at all, because of child care closing at Christmas? And what situation do you think they are in?

Because single parents wouldn't be allowed to live on benefits all year round because there's no formal child care on Christmas day. The one who do decide Christmas and holiday childcare is too much of a faff, usually do have a partner. Where else do they get their money from?

I have kids it's my problem to sort my childcare. No one else's. Like its not my problem to sort someone else's childcare out.

I had to pass up jobs that I wanted, because it didn't suit my child care. It's what I had to do as a single parent.

And I am not going to be grateful that other people go work, just incase that's keeping my taxes lower.

Are parents grateful to everyone else for working and funding education, how do you show that appreciation?

@JazzyBBG

Hmmm on the fence here as a parent, you have to accept to a degree that people will want that time off at certain ages. Equally as someone who pays for a lot of childcare in holidays it shouldn't be all the time. But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)

In my case in my 30's it was because I wanted to take a vacation with my niece and nephews because I wanted to experience some of their childhood while struggeling with infertility myself I eventually had my miracle baby at 41 but my golly, there were a few colleagues who got to enjoy their children daily who would begrudge me an annual holiday with someone elses kids.

Childless people do not live in a vacuum. We also need time off when our family and friends (who have kids) have time off.

YANBU OP. A rota system would be fair

I do wonder though why people without children take time off over any school holidays (apart from Christmas - this is a holiday everyone should take Tim off for and enjoy).

SO many people have given reasons on here.

I think if you have to work over Christmas it should be shared so whoever gets xmas off doesn’t get New Years. Or you don’t get it 2 years in a row. With holidays I think if two folk want the same dates and one has school age children (and they are requesting it at the same time) it’s fair to recognise that parents can only go away in school holiday time and they have preference.

Surely the employer needs to have a sensible policy on this? Parents, as with any other person, will simply make the most of what is available to them so if they get given preference they will utilise it.

I work in the public sector (not front line), in every team I’ve worked in Xmas (2-3 weeks) and summer holidays (6-8 weeks). are considered peak leave. Everyone is asked to put their requested dates on a shared chart. Then the management look at the chart and see if, just going by want, whether all days where we need people in are naturally covered or if there are any gaps. If there are gaps, it is raised with the team and colleagues have an opportunity to decide if there’s a date they would rather cover/adjust their rates and if it really gets down to it, line managers would have discussions (not that it’s ever got to that point).

I have family (also parents) working front line public sector and they don’t get a choice, they just get told when their leave is!

I don’t understand why an employer would do first come first served or give first dibs to any particular group.

*adjust their dates

it’s fair to recognise that parents can only go away in school holiday time and they have preference.

Its not only parents that can only go away in school holidays.

I don't think parents should be able to rjngfence time off because they have kids. Never known anywhere to do this
But if they are organised and book it off first then that's fair enough regardless of their reasons

Now that my children are grown, and I am therefore childfree, I would never ever choose to go on holiday during school breaks because a) cost b)children.
Cant understand why childfree employees would want to use school holidays, but at the same time, if they do, they should have the same options as other colleagues. Fair's fair.

I work in school. Anyone who wants to come on holiday with me needs school holidays. It's bad enough that they have to pay the inflated prices "unecessarily" without their colleagues being snippy about them taking time off in the holidays.

@Ylvamoon

Great, I hope none of you need the next generation for any kind of service... no nursing in old age, no tax payments to support your health care & pensions, no delivery driversfor your online shopping, to name a few things you might need or simply want. Naturally parents want to spend time with their children... best time for that is during school holidays. So while I agree holidays should be first come first served, in some circumstances parents should have preferential treatment. Especially if there isn't any childcare available like at Christmas and Easter bank holidays.

Are you for real? There are too many children being born and it's causing enviromental problems. There need to be less children, not more.

@Cornonthecobblers

I do wonder though why people without children take time off over any school holidays (apart from Christmas - this is a holiday everyone should take Tim off for and enjoy). If it wasn’t for my kids I’d be avoiding the school summer hols if I could. May and June and beginning July are often much nicer weather than August anyway.

RTFT!! Many, many people have given reasons

Partner/adult child/parent who is a teacher and works term time.
Birthday/anniversary/wedding is during that time
Lots of concerts/festivals etc. are during that time.
Wanting to go on holiday with extended family who have kids
Travelling to meet friends who have kids
Because they want to.
More not listed here

@Blackberrybunnet

Now that my children are grown, and I am therefore childfree, I would never ever choose to go on holiday during school breaks because a) cost b)children. Cant understand why childfree employees would want to use school holidays, but at the same time, if they do, they should have the same options as other colleagues. Fair's fair.

That's not what childfree means.

What if your children had kids and wanted to go away with you all?

Many, many people have posted about what childfree people might want to go away at that time. You really can't think of a reason?

As someone who is childfree I've been willing in the past to swap with parents who had childcare problems, but sadly it doesn't really get the appreciation you'd hoped for. Far too often people get to feel entitled and just presume if you've done it before then you'll do it again. Once anyone got to the CF entitled stage I'd refuse, and the indignation was something to behold.
Now I only work with people with grown up children and we all just sort it out fairly, much nicer

@Kanaloa

I don't particularly care if the nursery is shut over Christmas, or the system is fucked.

This is a bit confusing too - who are all these parents who absolutely CAN’T get any childcare over the entire Christmas holidays? Every nursery I’ve ever worked in was open right up till Christmas Eve closing time, and open up again on Boxing Day, or at one nursery the day after. People are acting like there’s weeks where you can’t get any childcare.

Same over half term/summer hols. Holiday clubs and the like are specifically open over those times. It’s expensive but that’s something you work out when you go to work, how will you organise childcare?

Both the nurseries I used closed on the 23rd Dec and opened on Jan 2nd. Happy to pay but nothing open.

Add in a DH in retail who was lucky to even get one day off and I was stuffed. Fortunately I work in a sector that gets Bank Holidays off but it's been difficult some years with the 3 days between Xmas and New Year.

This’ll be my first Christmas as a parent. Until this year (I’ll still be on maternity leave) I’ve always offered to work the shifts that people with children would least want to work (Christmas Eve/Boxing Day) but that’s not because I felt they should be given a priority, I just felt that it’d be helpful to colleagues with children. However, that doesn’t mean I’d expect anyone else to do the same for me and let me have leave now I have a DC. People without children still have friends/families/traditions/lives beyond work! So I don’t believe anybody should get a priority. If childless colleagues want to work the shifts the parents don’t, then fair enough. But if they don’t want to do them either, then names in a hat is probably the fairest way. I feel it’s entitled to expect that as a parent you should be prioritised because you chose to have children.

Thankfully legislation protects all employees that you have an entitlement to take holidays. What you don’t have is a right to take holidays automatically at a time of your choosing. No employee has a greater right legally to have holidays during the school holidays or Christmas season than another employee regardless of whether you are or are not a parent. Equally no one has to justify the reason why they would like holidays at a particular time.

Every nursery I’ve ever worked in was open right up till Christmas Eve closing time, and open up again on Boxing Day, or at one nursery the day after. People are acting like there’s weeks where you can’t get any childcare

when my ds was small I used two nurseries and neither was open between Christmas and New Year. The really annoying thing was we had to pay for that week too! But knowing that, you'd book the time off in plenty of time.

I don't know where you are getting this idea what parents get preferential treatment OP. I think it is just your workplace not being fair. I'm sure there are other places, but I don't think it's as bad as you make out.

Perhaps it might be because if the parent doesn't get the leave in the school holidays they can't actually come to work? Not everywhere has good school holiday clubs available, although you might be lucky where you live. Last time I checked, I don't think you can leave small children at home while you go to work - it's illegal. I had this once with a secretary where I worked who ordered me to come in on my day off when I had a two year old. She couldn't understand why I couldn't just ring up a random person and drop my son off there for a random day. 😂 A classic case of why you shouldn't judge another person's circumstances.

When I didn't have kids, I always picked up the bank holiday and Christmas shifts, so the parents could have time off. I also booked summer breaks in June and early July when the weather was better and the holidays were cheaper! Even when I had kids I still worked boxing day for 14 hour shifts and NYE so childless people didn't have to drag their arse in with a hangover. I really don't think it's that bad.

I book my son into holiday club, but kids do like to spend time with their parents in the holidays too, and if schools were a bit more lenient about when you can take your kids on holiday, it would give non-parents more choice too. I think that is a huge factor in the school holidays possibly being booked up by parents, if that is the case at your work..

There are so many divisive threads on MN at the moment. Everyone thinks they are worse off than the other person and there is a lot of bashing of parents, and young parents in particular. Very strange for a website created specifically for parents.

Daily fail/Tory bots?

@Thecurliestwurly BINGO!

@zafferana

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

That is a pretty smug and poorly thought out comment.

Not everyone’s time will come - not everyone has children - it is not your colleagues role to solve your childcare problems.

You don’t need time off at Christmas, you want time off at Christmas. Most people have the same want.

A good boss will be fair, not biased

@Bathshebahardy

It is unfair that parents of young children always get August and Christmas off. Summer is not so much of an issue as people can go away June/July outside school holidays but everyone wants Christmas. I have done Christmas at my house since my DM died when I was in my 20s. I always have to decorate, buy presents, shop and cook for several people but often not allowed to take any annual leave and it's exhausting and impossible to visit/socialise with other family and friends.

Honestly not everyone wants Christmas off. In 20 years doing staff rotas I only had one Christmas where two people had to work Christmas Day when they wanted it off. Young staff would prefer New Year, some people wanted to go skiing in January, some people didn't want to be home alone on Christmas Day. Some want the enhanced pay. Whatever the reason they don't all want Christmas off.