AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

Parents need to remember that non Parents are still the children of someone. Someone that may need them as much as they want to be with their own children.

That's why parents who work can't expect to be given preferential entitlement to holiday times.

@theemmadilemma

Parents need to remember that non Parents are still the children of someone. Someone that may need them as much as they want to be with their own children.

That's why parents who work can't expect to be given preferential entitlement to holiday times.

Doesn't that apply to parents too, they have (or had) parents themselves? Absolutely caring responsibilities are important, and the desire to be with older relatives makes sense when it comes to Christmas. I can't see it applying so much to needing time off during the school holidays to be able to take your dc away without a fine.

@VashtaNerada

As a manager I have always worked on the basis that anyone with a good reason for time off gets priority. That includes childcare need, but other reasons too such as caring for an elderly relative, weddings, funerals etc. I get Christmas off anyway but this year DH is working across Christmas and I have no relatives available for childcare so if I had a job where I was expected to work, I would hope that either DH’s or my employer would give one of us the time off as the DC would otherwise be alone. It’s the human thing to do as an employer. I’d equally expect priority for time off if I was caring for an elderly or disabled relative, it’s not just about being a parent. I think part of being a manager is understanding your team’s personal circumstances and supporting them if they need it.

So going by your logic because I have no children and my parents are dead I should be expected to just fit in around everyone else. I'm glad I don't work for a manager like you!

Having children is a lifestyle choice so no parents shouldn’t have first dibs on annual leave. Most places l have worked then annual leave is first come, first served. Apart from Christmas when all requests are reviewed together, if someone has had the last Christmas / New Years off and they want it again then it’s unlikely they would get it again. It’s unreasonable to give certain groups preferential treatment with annual leave and would be grounds for a grievance. People with elderly patents or friends / family far away may wish to travel or visit over Christmas, New Year or summer. Or be bored of holding the fort for the last x amount of years

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

I think it’s sensible to give priority to parents of young children in school holidays. Most parents use a combination of holiday clubs, childminders and annual leave to cover holidays and half terms, why shouldn’t they take some annual leave to spend time with their children? It’s hard enough working FT and managing a young family without being told you can’t use some of your leave in school holidays.

Other parents may not be able to afford full childcare fees the entire school holiday and end up leaving their job. Bosses have to be sympathetic to individual needs, especially in jobs like healthcare where qualified staff are leaving in droves. Many nurses, doctors, physios, cleaners, HCAs, kitchen assistants and allied health professionals balance work with the demands of a young family. The NHS is promoted as being family friendly and offering flexible working or term time only contracts to parents.

Likewise, if a person without children wanted a particular week off in term time or school holidays (partner’s birthday, dog having surgery, a holiday, caring responsibility, house move etc) it would be kind and sensible of the team to try and accommodate their wishes.

why shouldn’t they take some annual leave to spend time with their children? Why shouldn’t I take some annual leave to spend time with my DP/my parent who's a teacher/my friends who are getting married in August/my other friend who is terminally ill and asks people to visit in times that fit around treatment and recuperation etc?

@zafferana

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year Have you not read or not understood the many posts pointing out why people can't always do so? Or are you deliberately ignoring them?

if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.
How about people whose time hasn't come and won't come because their partner died/they are single long-term/they are not able to have children?

[quote RedWingBoots]@Kanaloa the nursery my DD goes to shuts for 2 weeks over Christmas exactly following the school holidays. Her CM also closes over Christmas but doesn't follow the school holidays.

We both take time off over Christmas anyway, but luckily have family and friends who could look after her if we couldn't. School is going to be more of a problem as half-term dates vary around the country.[/quote]
But you chose that nursery and that childminder. You knew you had to work at that time and chose a nursery and childminder that didn’t provide the childcare you need.

That’s the issue. People making choices (taking certain jobs, choosing certain childcare) that don’t fit their lifestyle, then expecting that colleagues should of course pick up the slack for them.

I have kids myself so I’m not oblivious to how hard it is to juggle work and childcare. It’s very hard indeed, but it’s not my colleagues fault.

@zafferana

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

And those whose time don’t come? Who can’t have children, or don’t for any reason?

They should just work every Christmas to cover for those who have kids?

@zafferana

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

I'm 43, I've never had kids so when would my time come?

@zafferana

I think a good boss will be flexible on this and yes, prioritise workers who need to be off at this time because they have small DC and/or childcare issues. Those without DC can take holidays at other times of the year and many workplaces are closed on Christmas/Boxing day so it's not like those without DC never get to be with their families at Christmas. I think we all need to be considerate and kind and face the fact that most people do have DC at some time in their lives, so if 20-somethings are fed up of working around Christmas, their time will come.

OK. How are you as a parent who is prioritised going to be considerate and kind to your colleagues?

Genuine question.

Because in addition to having priority for annual leave at any time of year in which childcare issues might arise, my colleagues who are parents are also using flexi-time to do the school run twice a day, refusing to work outside of 9-5, refusing to work weekends, and refusing to provide any kind of emergency cover. All on the basis that the workplace needs to be kind, considerable and flexible to them.

They are doing absolutely no giving whatsoever.

So whenever parents use the kindness buzzword, what I hear is: I need to get everything I need, because I have kids, and you need to be kind and give way to me.

And don't say that kindness means it'll be my turn one day - I'm infertile.

It's a tricky one. I have to have Christmas week off as I am a lone parent, and no holiday clubs or childminders are open and I've no family. Luckily I'm in a standalone role so this hasn't been a problem in my current role, but if I couldn't take that time off I would be absolutely stuck.

I will and have swapped when someone is desperate but I refuse to never have time off at christmas or in the summer due to a congenital issue which means I cant have children. I am worthy of celebrating christmas and having a summer too

I have been less of a doormat since I was slagged off by a colleague for daring to take 3 days off in the entire summer holiday, to travel to a funeral and back, apparently thats far less worthy of time off than ability to have unprotected sex

Plus you know that family childcare thats needed? Thats me over there in the corner doing childcare for a family member who cant get enough time off in the holidays whilst simultaneously being bitched at by collegues because I dont understand how hard it is to find childcare

@Kanaloa the problem is people don’t want to recognise that they have made choices. They act like they just woke up and had no input or influence into anything Then try to make it someone else’s problem, in this instance their colleagues or managers

One company I worked for didn’t give bank holidays automatically, so it was much much easier to amicably sort out cover within the team without the Christmas/New Year bunfight. I didn’t have kids so I used to cover easter and the summer hols for the other team members then have my main holiday over Christmas to visit family abroad and they sorted those days between them. That was a really lovely team though.

Ofcourse they shouldn’t. People who don’t have children have lives too. They may have caring responsibilities, animals, personal issues that you may not be aware of, Heath conditions or they may simply not want to have to facilitate other people’s life choices - and there is no reason why they should.

Firstly the article was based on USA where there is far less paid leave.

Most parents taking the whole summer off are taking it unpaid and every year - not as annual leave. Employers are well aware of term times and annual leave is always granted based on business needs. So get on to the employer about reducing clients over that period or employing more staff.

Actual annual leave shouldnt be granted based on whether people have children. But in America the article implies there isnt parental leave as well as holiday leave.

If people want every summer off, even those without kids, you can ask your employer to reduce your hours.

Noone who has kids actually wants six bloody weeks off in a row with them so petition your employer for subsidised childcare.

If there is no other childcare, i apreciate it "isnt your problem" but what is your solution? A non-working parent in each house for 16 years? Are you going to pay extra tax for that? Part time employees pay a good wedge, what % of tax increase would be needed for it? Or would you rather only the wealthy breed?

The thing is - with it not being the problem of those without children problem - the onus is not on them to find a solution - it is on those who decided to have them either as individuals or via societal change. Oh

It is unfair that parents of young children always get August and Christmas off. Summer is not so much of an issue as people can go away June/July outside school holidays but everyone wants Christmas. I have done Christmas at my house since my DM died when I was in my 20s. I always have to decorate, buy presents, shop and cook for several people but often not allowed to take any annual leave and it's exhausting and impossible to visit/socialise with other family and friends.

@NorthSouthcatlady

I agree totally. It’s this weak and wishy washy attitude of ‘oh but I have children, how will I organise childcare?’ As if it’s everyone else’s responsibility to cover you for that. It costs money, but there are holiday clubs, nannies, babysitters, childminders etc that work over the holidays. It’s not ideal but as a parent it’s part of your responsibility to sort that out.

I agree with the op on the whole. I’m a single mum, have been for 10 years now and perhaps I’m lucky this has not been an issue in any of my jobs. There are always enough weeks and working cover for everyone to fit in time off over the summer. I do wonder though why people without children take time off over any school holidays (apart from Christmas - this is a holiday everyone should take Tim off for and enjoy). If it wasn’t for my kids I’d be avoiding the school summer hols if I could. May and June and beginning July are often much nicer weather than August anyway.

1 in 5 women never have kids. So no their time does not come.

Depends ... overall first come first served but if there's limited people allowed off in school holidays (summer and half term) then those who have children or partners who are teachers/fixed holidays get priority for a maximum of 2 weeks.Christmas and Easter I have less sympathy with parents as many of us have specific reasons to need leave eg i have adult kids I only see them, others aging parents they need to support

‘If there is no other childcare, i apreciate it "isnt your problem" but what is your solution? A non-working parent in each house for 16 years? Are you going to pay extra tax for that? Part time employees pay a good wedge, what % of tax increase would be needed for it? Or would you rather only the wealthy breed?‘

No matter how hard you try and make it the problem of childfree or childless colleagues, the bottom line is that it isn’t. Nor is finding the solution.

It needs to be fair - and I guess depends on what people want. In general I avoid taking time off in the school holidays but if I wanted to, I would expect to have a fair crack at it. Same with Christmas. I had colleagues who had to travel out of state in the US to see their family. Fair enough. But I was not going to work every Christmas due to that.