AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

I don't think anyone thinks its "more special" for families with little kids, I think it's more that young children arent always able to understand why parents might have to work and to comprehend doing your celebration on a different day etc. For example my near 5 y old is excitedly counting down days to christmas day, I can't fool him into thinking it's on a different day because they talk about the date at school, and he believes in father christmas and that he comes on that specific day, so he would get quite confused and upset if I had to work and tried to move things around in terms of when we had our big celebration.

It doesnt mean its impossible to work around, just that most parents are keen to avoid it if possible

There is a middle ground. Employers should have a policy in place. Mine has - 2 week in the summer, 1 week easter, Christmas is shared - we have a meeting, everyone says what they want/need a we work it out. Rarely is anyone disappointed.

If you leave it to first come first served, you risk some bagging all of the holidays.

Flexible working requests are available to all not just those with children, it makes no difference whether you have children

In theory yes, everyone has the right to request flexible working. But in practice unless you have children your request is unlikely to be granted.

@Ylvamoon

Great, I hope none of you need the next generation for any kind of service... no nursing in old age, no tax payments to support your health care & pensions, no delivery driversfor your online shopping, to name a few things you might need or simply want. Naturally parents want to spend time with their children... best time for that is during school holidays. So while I agree holidays should be first come first served, in some circumstances parents should have preferential treatment. Especially if there isn't any childcare available like at Christmas and Easter bank holidays.

Has it occurred to you that some non-parents have caring responsibilities too, e.g. caring for their own parents?

Really @VashtaNerada our species is not going to die out anytime soon! In fact, if we skip a generation or so it would be good for the planet

..... and our economy would be completely fucked. Ageing population with a missing generation of workers? No thank you. Please go and do some reading as to why this would cause catastrophe.

'I don't think people with responsibilities should be allowed responsibilities because I choose not to have any and want fun'... is basically what this comes down to.

Obviously, anyone who is in a position of care for children, elderly, sick/disabled etc... should get priority when they need time off to cover their care commitments over your jolly holiday.

Are parents meant to just abandon children when there's no care available so you can go to Ibiza for a week?.

Why would you even want to holiday in the school summer holiday costs 10x as much but the childfree have the luxury of going not during school term time and saving a fortune.

Yanbu. I am a parent. I will book my leave a year in advance to make sure I get the dates I want.

We absolutely need to have better childcare available - that is the answer

This just adds in yet more people (who may have children of their own) who then also need to work over festive periods etc. it actually exacerbates the problem in most cases.

@Beautiful3

I think companies should allow parents to switch to a term time only contract. Avoiding the whole annual leave being needed for holidays. I had to leave my job as I needed to be around in the holidays, and couldn't afford 2 lots of child care during them. More parents would be in work, if term time contracts were allowed.

I have worked in places where this is an option but it invariably means that there needs to be cover during the school holidays and as there are fewer staff scheduled to work, then those that work all year still struggle to get leave as the work still needs to be covered, just by fewer people.

@mam0918

'I don't think people with responsibilities should be allowed responsibilities because I choose not to have any and want fun'... is basically what this comes down to.

Obviously, anyone who is in a position of care for children, elderly, sick/disabled etc... should get priority when they need time off to cover their care commitments over your jolly holiday.

Are parents meant to just abandon children when there's no care available so you can go to Ibiza for a week?.

Why would you even want to holiday in the school summer holiday costs 10x as much but the childfree have the luxury of going not during school term time and saving a fortune.

Im assuming this is a tongue in cheek post as if not, its a very strange and short sighted view. I dont have children but as my OH is told when his holidays are (and they are usually in school holidays) so I will be requesting my annual leave to coincide with his funnily enough. Whether that makes it a 'jolly holiday' I dont know. As I am 41 I will not be going to Ibiza for a week or am choosing not to have responsibilities and have fun instead of having children. What an immature post.

'I don't think people with responsibilities should be allowed responsibilities because I choose not to have any and want fun'... is basically what this comes down to.

Or...choosing to have a certain responsibility means that I have priority over others who made a different choice, Not having kids does not mean that a person doesn't have responsibilities. Also, not everyone without kids has made the choice to do so, and it isn't always fun.

Why would you even want to holiday in the school summer holiday costs 10x as much but the childfree have the luxury of going not during school term time and saving a fortune.

Can you really not think of a reason, several have been mentioned in this thread already including (but not limited to)

Partner/adult child/parent who is a teacher and works term time.
Birthday/anniversary/wedding is during that time
Lots of concerts/festivals etc. are during that time.
Wanting to go on holiday with extended family who have kids
Travelling to meet friends who have kids
Because they want to.

We were fortunate in that OH's work shut down over Christmas & New Year. Everyone had to budget their leave for then else it was unpaid.

Other holidays were first come first served.

If you leave it to first come first served, you risk some bagging all of the holidays

No, it just means people have to be organised. Most people are very well organised when it comes to childcare issues because they have to be.

When I was child free I always let the people with kids have their holidays. My mother who was a nurse use to go to work crying on Christmas day because she couldn't spend it with us as her child free Co workers took that time off before she even had a chance.

I work in a small team with a rule of only one person off at a time (for whole weeks, the odd day or 2 is fine). I (with no kids) once had the audacity to book Feb half term off, almost a year in advance, so I could ski with a teacher friend and a friend with kids.

Only one colleague has school age kids, and has always assumed half term is hers to book off, so when she came to book it 2 months or so out was furious that I'd already booked it off (it had been in her diary since it was booked). Apparently I had 'no right' to book the whole week of half term off when she 'needed' it. Absolute madness!

@CounsellorTroi

Flexible working requests are available to all not just those with children, it makes no difference whether you have children

In theory yes, everyone has the right to request flexible working. But in practice unless you have children your request is unlikely to be granted.

Not my experience at all. There’s a very clear legal process and reasons to justify turning requests down. It doesn’t take into account childcare. Some requests are denied for childcare too. The default is acceptance unless there is a valid reason to deny the request. Again, if the process isn’t followed you need to complain to your employer.

@Beautiful3

I think companies should allow parents to switch to a term time only contract. Avoiding the whole annual leave being needed for holidays. I had to leave my job as I needed to be around in the holidays, and couldn't afford 2 lots of child care during them. More parents would be in work, if term time contracts were allowed.

Yes this could be offered more. Most workplaces could be more flexible around shift patterns. It will depend on qualifications and experience, but if you take retail as an example - a parent with children could easily work term-time and the shop employs a sixth former or student in their place in the school holidays. I fully expect a load of grumpy MNers to pile on to tell me why that can't possibly happen, but it can and should in many cases.

You might be able to claim sex discrimination for not getting suitable holidays as it had a greater effect on women.

Yes this could be offered more. Most workplaces could be more flexible around shift patterns. It will depend on qualifications and experience, but if you take retail as an example - a parent with children could easily work term-time and the shop employs a sixth former or student in their place in the school holidays. I fully expect a load of grumpy MNers to pile on to tell me why that can't possibly happen, but it can and should in many cases.

Sixth form is age 16-18 so they couldn't work checkout if the place sells alcohol, they are restricted as to when they can work (6am-10pm) so are difficult to cover in 24 hour supermarkets. They will need to be trained in the job, including licensing, COSHH etc. which takes time and money.

Not grumpy, just practical.

@BigFatLiar

You might be able to claim sex discrimination for not getting suitable holidays as it had a greater effect on women.

Surely that would then cover all women and not just those with children?

@MintJulia

YANBU

However as a single parent with no support, I work out when I need holiday at least a year in advance and book it before anyone else.

I hope none of my colleagues thinks I get preferential treatment, I really have already booked next Christmas eve.

I hope none of my colleagues thinks I get preferential treatment

Erm, I would think that's exactly what they're thinking!

And TBH, if people are booking Christmas Eve over a year in advance, I think your workplace should definitely introduce a better system. I do sympathise with your personal circumstances, but it's not fair that you get first dibs on prime time holidays (unless your colleagues are truly OK with that)

Having children is a choice. I am a single parent and I never used the parenting card to trump annual leave. I also do not believe in first come first served after a year when I worked over Christmas and had the first week of January off and then came in to find that the two other members of my team had booked all the bank holiday weeks off.

Annual leave is valuable for everyone and it should be fair.

Sometimes I really is about making the best of a situation.
I was in hospital the MWs were working half shifts, one was keen to get home for dinner the other who took over was happy she'd had Christmas morning with her kids.

They'd obviously worked something out between them so they got the most important part of the day to them off.

Parent VS child-free is a dumb way to look at it.

Employers have a legal duty to consider protected characteristics when dealing with such matters. That include things like disabilities, whether someone is a carer (e.g. for an older relative), and yes, whether someone has children to look after.
I repeat: employers have a legal duty to consider the needs of all their employees, and discuss reasonable adjustments accordingly. That can include flexiwork, paid or unpaid leave, and first dibs on certain holiday slots. Whether you think it's "fair" or not is neither here nor there. You're not an employer, and you're not HR. Not your call to make.

YANBU- having kids is a choice. Other people have many other and equally valid reasons for wanting holiday time off. Maybe they too want to spend time with family, including other kids in the family. Maybe it’s likely to be a relatives last Christmas. Maybe they are carer for a disabled person and they don’t want to share that with the world. Or maybe they just want to take their holiday entitlement when they want and not be dictated to by someone who thinks they are more important.

Holiday should be first come first served apart from Christmas which should be taken in goes and turns to make it fair IMO, apart from certain circumstances like a last Christmas or something like that. The people whining about things like Christmas surely knew what the work pattern and the work days were like when they took the job?