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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just been kicked out of a group for objecting to being referred to as my reproductive organs

502 replies

Gerlais · 30/11/2021 15:59

Group on Facebook. I was referred to as a “uterus owner”. I objected to this. I’m now banned from the group for being transphobic. Everyone piled on me and if I wasn’t kicked out I would have been leaving anyway. I don’t care what other people want to be called but I will not be referred to as my reproductive organs!! It’s not transphobic to want to be referred to as a woman if you were in fact born female and wish to remain a woman? surely?? Or AIBU?

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/11/2021 17:54

Regarding some claims on the thread.

Globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older).This figure does not include sexual harassment. The rates of depression, anxiety disorders, unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted infections, and HIV are higher in women who have experienced violence compared to women who have not, as well as many other health problems that can last even after the violence has ended [1].

Most violence against women is perpetrated by current or former husbands or intimate partners.

More than 640 million women aged 15 and older have been subjected to intimate partner violence (26 per cent of women aged 15 and older) [1].

Of those who have been in a relationship, almost one in four adolescent girls aged 15 to 19 (24 per cent) have experienced physical and/or sexual violence from an intimate partner or husband.Sixteen per cent of young women aged 15 to 24 experienced this violence in the past 12 months [1].In 2018, an estimated one in seven women had experienced physical and/or sexual violence from an intimate partner or husband in the past 12 months (13 per cent of women aged 15 to 49).These numbers do not reflectthe impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has increased risk factors for violence against women [1].

Calls to helplines have increased five-fold in some countriesas rates of reported intimate partner violence increase because of theCOVID-19 pandemic. Restricted movement, social isolation, and economic insecurity are increasing women’s vulnerability to violence in the home around the world [2].

By September 2020, 52 countries had integrated prevention and response to violence against women and girls into COVID-19 response plans, and 121 countries had adopted measures to strengthen services for women survivors of violence during the global crisis, but more efforts are urgently needed [3].

Globally, 6 per cent of women report they have been subjected to sexual violence from someone other than their husband or partner.However, the true prevalence of non-partner sexual violence is likely to be much higher, considering the particular stigma related to this form of violence [1].

One hundred thirty-seven women are killed by a member of their family every day.It is estimated that of the 87,000 women who were intentionally killed in 2017 globally, more than half (50,000) were killed by intimate partners or family members. More than one third (30,000) of the women intentionally killed in 2017 were killed by their current or former intimate partner [4].

Fewer than 40 per cent of the women who experience violence seek help of any sort.In the majority of countries with available data on this issue, among women who do seek help, most look to family and friends, and very few look to formal institutions, such as police and health services. Fewer than 10 per cent of those seeking help appealed to the police [5].

Adult women account for nearly half (49 per cent) of all human trafficking victims detected globally.Women and girls together account for 72 per cent, with girls representing more than three out of every four child trafficking victims. Most women and girls are trafficked for the purpose of sexual exploitation [7].15 million adolescent girls worldwide, aged 15–19 years, have experienced forced sex.In the vast majority of countries, adolescent girls are most at risk of forced sex (forced sexual intercourse or other sexual acts) by a current or former husband, partner, or boyfriend. Based on data from 30 countries, only one per cent have ever sought professional help [10].

www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures

NollaigNollaig · 30/11/2021 17:56

@Wobblyhousehunt ah yes be kind. That old chestnut!

Be kind women, don’t say anything about men being in your bathrooms even if you’ve been assaulted in the past and you’re scared. Who cares about your feelings when you could be kind and put the feelings of trans women first.

Be kind when someone tells you you are a uterus haver and you can’t call yourself a woman, who cares what you want to be called and if being a woman is important to you.

To the women raped by a trans woman who was put in a women’s prison - be kind. I know you wanted to be in a women’s only prison so you could be safe but what about the trans woman’s feelings! www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

To the woman weightlifter who didn’t get into the olympics because a man did - be kind, I know you put in so much hard work to get into the olympics but that doesn’t matter. All that matters is a trans woman got to compete www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/58054891.amp

To the girl raped at school by a boy who went into women’s toilets. I know you were raped but be kind! What about trans women’s feelings. www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10086761/amp/Father-daughter-raped-girls-bathroom-slams-Merrick-Garland.html

Women - Who cares how you feel or think or about your wants and medical needs and needs for single safe spaces. No one cares! Just be kind. And put trans women (men) first! Oh and btw if you don’t we will call you a TERF and try hound you out of your job!

FOJN · 30/11/2021 17:56

Why do some posters insist the feminist board is an echo chamber? Every time a thread like this appears on AIBU some people report it in the hope it will be moved to the naughty step, if you've ever wondered why that is you only have to look at the poll results. It's a bit difficult to argue this is a concern to a minority of women who inhabit an echo chamber when in this poll alone 97% of people think the OP is not being unreasonable.

680 people have responded to the poll but only 120 have commented which I think shows how reluctant women are to be vocal about how dehumanising it is to have the language they use to describe their own experiences branded as bigoted.

The thread title makes the topic clear, if it's not your cup of tea then scroll on by and stop policing what women can and cannot discuss.

DownWhichOfLate · 30/11/2021 17:56

Women are the most at risk group from men. And that’s what trans women are - men. So, yes, a trans woman shouldn’t be at a woman’s group. (In response to Wobblyhousehunt).

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/11/2021 17:56

We are currently on day 6 (I think) of the annual 16 Days campaign to end violence against women and girls.

One stat publicised so far is that 1 in five women is subjected to attempted or completed rape during her lifetime.

Zerogravity · 30/11/2021 17:57

I also believe that trans women have the highest rate of sexual assault/ violence against them out of any group.

So you believe this? Why? 41% of the transgender women who are in prison are there for sex offences. Transwomen in the UK are much safer than women. I don't have to believe in these statistics because they are both facts.

Theunamedcat · 30/11/2021 17:57

The second you challenge your blocked i commented on a report about JKR there were people on there screaming in shouting caps about how transphobic she was about how she was willing trans people to die and that she was guilty along with most women of committing violence against trans community apparently "feminazi terfs" and people who "believe in biology" are the most violent people on the PLANET transgender people and there allies are the meekest and most gentle people on earth and never harm anyone I said......what about Karen white? And what about the abuse that was directed towards JKR after her essay? Surely terfs didn't do that?

Blocked deleted thrown out the group no great loss but the batshit craziness was unbelievable

PrettiSilver · 30/11/2021 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

334bu · 30/11/2021 18:00

Admiral Caine …. Obviously men and women can be survivors of invest and rape. Should transwomen have to go to groups for male victims of incest and rape? I also believe that trans women have the highest rate of sexual assault/ violence against them out of any group.

According to the,Office of National Statistics 10% of all female rape victims are suicidal. All research and surveys show that the one thing female rape victims want is to be treated and counselled by women and with women. The presence of male people means many women self exclude from help available. Males who identify as women may well be uncomfortable in male only groups. However, this does not mean that they should be placed in female only provision. The simple solution is to provide separate services for trans victims.

Werideatnoon · 30/11/2021 18:01

This is totally batshit now. I’ve kept quiet when this sort of thing is mentioned but really?! Penis owner? Ffs

Binglebong · 30/11/2021 18:02

That is tragic Purgatory. Thank you for sharing those stark facts.

Waitwhat23 · 30/11/2021 18:04

There is a cervical screening programme running in Scotland just now with adverts running on the major radio stations.

It doesn't mention the word woman once. It uses 'those who have a cervix' and '3 people a day' but not the word woman.

Various studies have shown that something like 45% of women don't know what a cervix is. It excludes women who don't have English as their first language, among other groups. It's not inclusive - it's exclusive. And yes, it is happening- this is just one example.

Not to men though. Prostate Cancer UK responded to a question about them using the term 'prostate havers' (or similar) saying that they didn't use that on campaign materials because it wouldn't reach everyone they wanted to reach.

It's irrelevant if the trans person you know personally is lovely. The language women use to refer to themselves is being changed against their knowledge and consent.

I am not cis (a made up, nonsensical term). I am not a cervix haver. I am a woman.

Zerogravity · 30/11/2021 18:05

I consider myself a feminist but for god sake have some kindness in your heart.
I consider myself a feminist too which is why I believe children, especially girls deserve better. Don't you see how dehumanizing "uterus haver" is? And what the hell do you mean by a trans girl - "princess", really? Children cannot transition. I do not think this is kindness at all.

Ionlydomassiveones · 30/11/2021 18:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 30/11/2021 18:09

@Wobblyhousehunt

Admiral Caine …. Obviously men and women can be survivors of invest and rape. Should transwomen have to go to groups for male victims of incest and rape? I also believe that trans women have the highest rate of sexual assault/ violence against them out of any group.

I sometimes think people post things like this so they can have a moan, making regular people think trans women are monsters. Is this the whole story OP or are you gasslighting?

I urge every kind woman in the fence about this stuff to know that transwomen just want to be safe. They don’t want to refer to you by your body parts or any such nonsense. They have difficult hard lives please be kind. And always remember it could be your son/ daughter/ brother/ niece/ dad who comes out as trans next.

Scuse you?

Should transwomen have to go to groups for male victims of incest and rape? Wrong question. Should trans identified men be welcome to use groups and other safe spaces designated female?

You think it OK for a wman who has been raped to be told that the male bodied person sat next to her isn't a man so she needs to set aside her bigotry, educate herself out of her distress? I think we all know someone else who has said that!

I also believe that trans women have the highest rate of sexual assault/ violence against them out of any group.

Mmm! Let me see. ONS data showed that tran identified people were twice as likely to have experienced crime than others last year. But they also stated that it is impossible to pull out murder and rape stats because it depends entirely on police recording the victims sex not gender.

High numbers of rape and sexual violence ARE reported - most regularly in sex workers in Brazil for example

And, purely anecdotally, I have worked closely with a local refuge for just over 20 years. Big city outside of London. We have had 1 trans identified male and 2 trans identified females in that time. And thousands of straight, gay, bi sexual women.

Ruth Hunt and Stonewall claimed some weird figures that turned out not to be what the reader might have thought they were

I would urge every person sitting on the fence about womens rights to know that women have the right to be safe in single sex spaces.

Trans identified individuals have that exact same right, But it cannot override the rights of any other cohort of people.

The idea that women are not being referred to by body parts shows this poster to be utterly disingenuous, as even the NHS is doing it - romoving the words women and female, but not male and men, form health advice leaflets etc

And it would be good if remembering to 'be kind' could include all people, no matter who they are or how they identify!

whoopsnomore · 30/11/2021 18:09

They make it sound like "uterus" and "penis" are models of car. "Uterus owner, where do you get your alloy wheels?"

RebeccaCloud9 · 30/11/2021 18:11

The thing about this that fucks me off more than anything is the fact that it appears that women can be called whatever offensive, bonkers shit the trans activists can dream up and if we object then we're transphobic. But if we call them literally anything other than women, we are also transphobic. Huh???

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/11/2021 18:12

also believe that trans women have the highest rate of sexual assault/ violence against them out of any group.

Who has the second highest rate then?

FreeBritnee · 30/11/2021 18:12

It’s interesting when talking about inclusive language for disabilities that’s it’s important not to describe the person as the disability, so someone living with Down syndrome is more inclusive than saying ‘the downs child’ or the ‘autistic person’. But it’s more inclusive language to denigrate an individual by calling them a uterus haver or an ovulator. That’s taking a step backwards surely?

Snugglepumpkin · 30/11/2021 18:12

If it's normal to refer to women as their body parts, then transwomen should also be referred to by the body parts/functions that differ from those of real women so they should be called penis havers, sperm producers etc...

Otherwise those using body parts to describe real women are just using hate speech.

They can't have it both ways & there is no kindness in referring to real women in such disgustingly dismissive terms.

Isthatthebestyoucando · 30/11/2021 18:12

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Regarding some claims on the thread.

Globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older).This figure does not include sexual harassment. The rates of depression, anxiety disorders, unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted infections, and HIV are higher in women who have experienced violence compared to women who have not, as well as many other health problems that can last even after the violence has ended [1].

Most violence against women is perpetrated by current or former husbands or intimate partners.

More than 640 million women aged 15 and older have been subjected to intimate partner violence (26 per cent of women aged 15 and older) [1].

Of those who have been in a relationship, almost one in four adolescent girls aged 15 to 19 (24 per cent) have experienced physical and/or sexual violence from an intimate partner or husband.Sixteen per cent of young women aged 15 to 24 experienced this violence in the past 12 months [1].In 2018, an estimated one in seven women had experienced physical and/or sexual violence from an intimate partner or husband in the past 12 months (13 per cent of women aged 15 to 49).These numbers do not reflectthe impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has increased risk factors for violence against women [1].

Calls to helplines have increased five-fold in some countriesas rates of reported intimate partner violence increase because of theCOVID-19 pandemic. Restricted movement, social isolation, and economic insecurity are increasing women’s vulnerability to violence in the home around the world [2].

By September 2020, 52 countries had integrated prevention and response to violence against women and girls into COVID-19 response plans, and 121 countries had adopted measures to strengthen services for women survivors of violence during the global crisis, but more efforts are urgently needed [3].

Globally, 6 per cent of women report they have been subjected to sexual violence from someone other than their husband or partner.However, the true prevalence of non-partner sexual violence is likely to be much higher, considering the particular stigma related to this form of violence [1].

One hundred thirty-seven women are killed by a member of their family every day.It is estimated that of the 87,000 women who were intentionally killed in 2017 globally, more than half (50,000) were killed by intimate partners or family members. More than one third (30,000) of the women intentionally killed in 2017 were killed by their current or former intimate partner [4].

Fewer than 40 per cent of the women who experience violence seek help of any sort.In the majority of countries with available data on this issue, among women who do seek help, most look to family and friends, and very few look to formal institutions, such as police and health services. Fewer than 10 per cent of those seeking help appealed to the police [5].

Adult women account for nearly half (49 per cent) of all human trafficking victims detected globally.Women and girls together account for 72 per cent, with girls representing more than three out of every four child trafficking victims. Most women and girls are trafficked for the purpose of sexual exploitation [7].15 million adolescent girls worldwide, aged 15–19 years, have experienced forced sex.In the vast majority of countries, adolescent girls are most at risk of forced sex (forced sexual intercourse or other sexual acts) by a current or former husband, partner, or boyfriend. Based on data from 30 countries, only one per cent have ever sought professional help [10].

www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures[/quote]
Yeah, but trans people get misgendered all of the time, they are the real oppressed.
Women don't know their born.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 30/11/2021 18:14

@Wobblyhousehunt

I only read about stuff like this from ‘feminists’ online, I’ve never been referred to as any of the above. The two trans women I know are bloody lovely. The little trans girl who goes to my sons school is an absolute princess and fully deserving of our protection and love. The only nastiness I see from extreme feminists winding each other up and trying to rally people like it’s a blood sport. I consider myself a feminist but for god sake have some kindness in your heart. Times change, labels change, language changes get over it.
Hogwash!

I know a few trans identified people and they are all lovely. Just as I know many other people who are lovely. I don't know anyone who is a rapist or a murderer. So my experience of vioent men is as salient as yours!!

That little trans girl who is an 'absolute princess' is living out someone elses idea of girlhood. Small children like being other peole, other things all the time. If we, as a society, didn't stereotype, pink, blue, princes and rincesses etc, all kids, and adults, could be whatever the hell they wanted to be without question!

And take the smallest fo steps back, read back through the thread, see the questions that have been asked and think - why are you ignoring the reality of the situation in order to 'be nice'?

Oh, and the phrase 'get over it' reveals more than you might like to think!

Wobblyhousehunt · 30/11/2021 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

miltonj · 30/11/2021 18:15

I never think of myself as owning my uterus. I mean I guess it is mine, so in that sense no one else owns it but still! It's just part of me.... not a Possession to own or to have.

Wobblyhousehunt · 30/11/2021 18:17

Hoarding Hampshire … so you can be sensitive about ‘get over it’ and my use of the term princess but other people can’t be sensitive about language 🤷🏼‍♀️