DH wants MIL to come to us for Christmas

[Macmoominmamma]

Hi all

Your opinions please!

For context - MIL went into nursing home Feb 2020 at age of 84. She's been incredibly independent for past 50 years but now can't cope living on her own. Diagnosed with dementia, which fluctuates. She is urine incontinent, can't go up or down stairs, doesn't walk far, can't work TV or mobile phone, despite being shown many many times. She lives 100 miles away from us and her other DS lives in same village as her.

DH asked me last night if she could come to ours for Christmas, coming 23rd Dec and leaving Boxing Day. We have 2 kids, aged 15 and 9. It is 9 year olds birthday Christmas Eve (will be 10 then). I have pointed out the distance for her to travel, that she is incontinent, has dementia, she can't walk up steps (our WCs are not on ground floor), but DH says he will take her to a hotel and they will stay there overnight and come to our home for feeding, present opening etc.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this - on the one hand, it would be nice to have her, and don't want her to spend Christmas at Nursing Home, but on the other hand I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, and just a bit miserable for the kids to have their dad away from them over Christmas Day and birthday.

DH appears to have thought this through and is pretty set on it.
AIBU to put a spanner in the works by saying no?

YANBU - yes tell him it's a no
YABU - she should come.

It would be better for all of you to stay in a nice hotel near her and visit/take her out on Christmas Day.

Utterly rediculous idea
Would be completely unfair on her ,
Unless he’s trying to actually kill her off ,as could actually do that with the shock of the change in surroundings

Does she want to come? IME sadly once someone with dementia is in a care home that's their family and taking them out the situation would only be stressful. Why don't you speak to the care home and see what they think?

Surely the answer is that you travel up there and stay nearby as a family and visit/ take her out for the day (whatever is allowed), was she not in the care home last Christmas since she went to BIL?
You could travel on Christmas Day have the birthday and stocking opening at home. There’s never any traffic on Christmas Day.

How long does the journey usually take & what are your plans for Christmas Day?

Could he drive there after lunch for example if he is set on seeing her on Christmas Day?

I’ve worked with dementia patients. There is ZERO chance I would recommend this plan.

1. Taking her away from her familiar environment, then back and forth to your home and hotel. Even with mild to moderate dementia, this would be upsetting, possibly terrifying.

1. Children. They’re loud, unpredictable and busy. Even older people without dementia are exhausted by them. The noise and chaos has the strong likelihood of frightening/upsetting your MIL.

1. Wandering/safety issues. It’s simply impossible for one person to be on alert 24/7. Getting out of your home/hotel room has been mentioned, but also scalding with hot water from sinks/tub, messing with electrical appliances, turning stove/oven on. She will need supervision at all times. And what if she locks herself in a bathroom by accident?

1. Aggression. Many people when afraid lash out with physical aggression. How are you going to keep her, yourselves, and your children safe if that happens?

1. Transportation. It’s a long drive. What if his mother becomes frightened and tries to get out of the moving vehicle, or starts panicking? How is he going to manage that?

I understand his desire to bring his mother home. But the reality is, it would endanger her well-being. It’s safer for her to stay in the care home, where the safety issues are addressed, staff on 24/7 and she has an established routine.

As a pp has said, people with even mild dementia find it difficult to cope with new environments. We made that mistake when we took my DGF on holiday. He was very very anxious and unhappy, so the lovely treat we planned for him turned into something actively distressing.

My lovely MIL also has dementia, and this time we learned from previous experience. Initially she enjoyed us taking her out from the home for a meal in a cafe or a little walk somewhere. But she soon started showing the same signs, and we realised that it was better to bring treats into the home, rather than take her out.

I bet that if your DH talks to her carers and mentions taking her between a hotel and your house, over a few days, they'll tell him that she is very unlikely to cope.

To be honest, even google will tell him that, I'm sure. One of the first symptoms of dementia is a loss of sense of direction and discomfort when anywhere new. Sufferers much prefer to remain in their usual environment.

I think you both have points and some of these comments are so cruel. Like the person who suggested you move out to a hotel and leave him to it. Like he’s being a dickhead or something.

The big question is- is it good for MIL? Is she so far gone it would be a bad idea? If not then I would move heaven on earth to help on the assumption that this is probably her last Christmas with your family. If it is a bit of a disaster and the kids don’t have the best Christmas ever they wont care. There will be other christmases. But your DH will remember that you tried. Refusing his idea point blank because it might dampen the ten year olds birthday is not fair. It would be if she came every Christmas but it’s a one-off. Get him to speak to the home first but if you have reservations I would really put them forward from the point of your mil’s enjoyment not from your own resentment of having a dampened Xmas.

To add to what so many others have said, you need to impress upon your DH, gently but firmly, that this really is not in his mum’s best interests. He needs to examine this from her perspective as a dementia sufferer. She will likely be frightened, confused and could suffer a great cognitive setback with this kind of disruption to her routine. It would not be kind to her at all. Not to mention the reality of what he’s proposing - a commode in the middle of everything and potential loss of dignity for example. In other words he’s doing this for himself, not for her. Of course it’s awful having to live with the knowledge that it might be her last Christmas, but he needs to try to think of her and her well-being in this.

If he’s determined to be with her over Christmas then it would be much better for him to go up by himself, stay in a hotel near the care home, and see her as much as he can/as much as she can handle over Christmas.

You and the children stay at home. Celebrate the birthday early (no child ever minds getting presents earlier!) so that he can be there for that. Yes it’s not ideal for him to be away from his family over Christmas but there will be more Christmases, and you will still be there so Christmas will still be wonderful for you and your children.

Or, is it likely that given the dementia his mum won’t even realise it’s christmas? If so could he have a pretend Christmas with her after the fact, on his next?

My FIL had dementia and we used to take him out for Christmas.

You can pre book agency carers to support her, and she can then comfortably come. I would do that.

We managed, it was fun, he is dead now and I am very glad we did what we could when he was here.

I advise not to stand in your dh's way whatever he decides, no matter how harebrained, because he may never forgive you if this is her last Christmas and he did not see her. He may also be under some pressure from his brother. Support your dh, try and make it as lovely as possible even if you have to go there.

As in local agency carers not the ones that currently care for her 100 miles away.

Why don’t you go up and spend Xmas in a hotel/air bnb and take her out for the days.
Surely that’s the most sensible option for all

if he's thought about it and is willing to do all her personal care

Encourage him to have a chat with the care home about the practicalities of taking a urine incontinent dementia patient on 100mile road trip out of her familiar surroundings, to spend time in a hotel and in a home with no step free access to a WC

If he thinks he can cope, I would encourage him to have a trial run, to bring her home for a day, rather than wait til Christmas to find out all the many things which will trip up inexperienced carers.

He clearly wants to do the right thing, it truly sounds like torture for his DM.

@Teacupsandtoast

And who is he proposes toilets and cleans his poor incontinent mum? You can ALL go and visit her, but leave her in a her safe comfortable warm surroundings where she will be cared for properly - not dragged on a 200 mile round trip to stay in a hotel. He is being ridiculous

This. Absolutely. Completely.

Spending Christmas in a hotel is not in his mum’s best interest. Why don’t you book a hotel over the Christmas holidays and go for a few days and see her?

@sopsmum

My mum was like your mil. She died at 84. This might be your last Christmas. It didn't even occur to me to ask my husband if she could come, it was a given. I had 4 children 11 and under and I love the fact they all remember my mum and I treasure the memories I have of her on that last Christmas notwithstanding it was extra work for me and my husband. She had a lovely day by the way.

But, my mum was a kind soul who had always been there for both me and my husband. Maybe you have a different relationship and that's fine too. Just be thoughtful towards your husband as it's his mum.

What a horrible post.

I adored my MIL. I probably loved her more than anyone other than my DH and DCs. She was a truly wonderful person, and I wish she'd been my mum.

No way would I have put her through the trauma of being out of the environment in which she was comfortable, once her dementia kicked in, to the point that she needed to be in a care home. It would have absolutely terrified her, and she would likely never have recovered.

I'm glad your mum could still cope with it when you had her at Christmas. But the vast majority of people with dementia cannot cope with being out of their environment, and it's absolutely nothing to do with the relationship that their family have with them. The kind thing to do is to NOT terrify them, and to let them remain in their comfort zone.

@Loudestcat14

Has your DH actually discussed this plan with her carers at the home? I'm pretty sure they'd have something to say about it. I imagine they'll plan a lovely day for their residents and her being in familiar surroundings is surely more preferable than what your DH is planning. Plus I imagine Covid will be a factor – taking her to a hotel where she'll come into contact with lots of strangers surely puts her health at risk and also might jeopardise her returning to the home. What if they get pinged as a close contact of someone who works there? They'd have to isolate there for 10 days under the new rules announced yesterday.

Agree with this - a lot of nursing homes near where I work would not allow this due to Covid even prior to the latest variant. He’s not spoken to the home has he ? I am sure they would try and dissuade him kindly but firmly. It’s 100 miles away not 15 minutes away and involves a stay in a hotel as well with someone with dementia. I don’t think it’s fair to her sorry.

Never mind the hassle - it's possible to work around that, but it's really not in her best interests to mover her temporarily because it suits him.

Personally I'd take the family to celebrate Christmas at the care home with her, and then have a second Christmas at home (St Stephen's day? NYE?)

As others have said also she might not even be that aware of it being Christmas.

I remember facetiming my Dad once, feeling very tearful at not being with him.

He was in a great mood, laughing & chatting to the carer who was holding the phone.

It went something like

"hello Dad, how are you? Happy Christmas!"(sniff)

"I'm too busy to talk..."

Changes of environment and routine are really bad for people with dementia, they almost always trigger a deterioration. I can see this is very distressing for your husband but he needs to consider who he is doing this for; his mother or himself, I would suggest its the latter.

Run with it & be as flexible as you can. He won't have his Mom for many more Christmases neither the children their grandmother.
It'll be tough but you do it with an open heart and make the best of it.
Commode in the study is fine, make sure DH has wipes, extra kitchen roll for spillages and plenty of pads / incontinence pants for each day.
He'll need inco pads or similar to line the bed in the hotel bed & be sure he's asked for a disabled room.
If he wants this time with her try to allow it.
Your children will have plenty more Christmases & birthdays

I used to work in a care home and the only residents who went to relatives houses for a couple of days for Xmas were the ones who needed very little care.
Residents with dementia and incontinence issues only tended to go out for a couple of hours to a relatives house and then was brought back home. Even that couple of hours would wipe them out . I don't think your DH realises just how much work this will be. It's not fair on your MIL.

Its clear he wants one last christmas for him and or the kids however it is quite selfish to pull someone with dementia out of their normal environment where they have care and put them into a hotel environment. How does he see her needs being met? She cannot be in a room on her own, he will need to share with her and see hto her pants and toileting including washing. I think he is underestimating how much work it will be if I am honest. WOuld be far better to go and stay up near her home and take her out for a few days - not over christmas that probably means v little to her now.

@PerfectlyImperfectme

Run with it & be as flexible as you can. He won't have his Mom for many more Christmases neither the children their grandmother. It'll be tough but you do it with an open heart and make the best of it. Commode in the study is fine, make sure DH has wipes, extra kitchen roll for spillages and plenty of pads / incontinence pants for each day. He'll need inco pads or similar to line the bed in the hotel bed & be sure he's asked for a disabled room. If he wants this time with her try to allow it. Your children will have plenty more Christmases & birthdays

And does his mother's wellbeing come into it at all? Should she be ferried around, scared and confused, so her son can have his 'happy' family Christmas?

I'm sorry but a commode in a study, pads to line a hotel bed when she's got perfectly good facilities where she is?

Why would anyone put her through that unnecessarily?

My DGM is a little older than your MIL and also in a home with similar issues, plus severe confusion that ebbs and flows.

We would love her to come for Christmas and birthdays - but it wouldn't be the best thing for her.

She'd be mortified if she had an accident, wouldn't want us to look after her personal care and any change to her routine makes her dementia even worse, so she'd be likely unaware of where she was or what she was doing anyway. If she was having a bad time with the confusion she's a flight risk as well.

Sadly your DH is - for the very best of reasons - only thinking of himself here. And also not thinking about the impact on you and your DCs, it sounds like it may be very upsetting for them to see their DGM in this state which he also needs to think about.