To suggest OH may not be good father material

[Timetable99]

Just that really. My OH is keen to have at least one child as soon as we can afford to but currently he plays computer games every spare moment he has (late 20s, no kids so lots of free time - he plays them a lot when WFH too) and he complains often whenever he does housework or has a busy social week scheduled that it is cutting into his gaming time. Busy to him currently means less than 2 hours available a day to do his own thing.
I pointed out to him that he would have barely any time to relax at all if we had children and that I'm not sure he would be able to handle how full on I've heard it is. He's upset with me now for implying he isn't good father material as he says he would get fully involved as soon as he has an obligation to be. I have severe doubts. AIBU? Is it possible to tell at all before committing to having children just whether the guy is going to actually pitch in and support 50/50?

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

You are 100% right. Only have kids with this man if you want to do 99% of the work.

This. Been there got the shirt. He was in a shitty mood over the weekend and I did 90+ percent of DC and house over the weekend while he gamed far to much.

@Timetable99

Wondering how best to move forward with all this now.
Consider moving out again... even after your conversation with him. This man is not ready to grow up properly and thoughtfully take on his fair share of the day to day responsibilities without having someone driving him. It would be much worse once a baby is introduced into the relationship. Imagine having having to keep pointing out/reminding him what needs to be done throughout your pregnancy, post-birth, his expectations of you taking on almost all the work (physical and mental load), and then you working around the needs of your shared child...

Also, if you do stay with him (and I'm not sure I would if your position) do please maintain your financial independence, including separate finances, whether his large payrise happens or not. On the current showing you are likely to be the loser in this unequal relationship. 🌹

It doesn’t sound like a recipe for success! My DH and I never had a great split of housework but it was ok. He said he wanted kids some day (I was also fairly ambivalent). I wasn’t sure how he’d really react, likes a lot of his own time etc. it was honestly when we adopted the least friendly kittens in the world and he spent HOURS sitting with them, researching how to socialize them, worrying about them etc and we’d had them for a few years with him continuing to care for them (I wanted them in the first place) that I realized he’d be a great partner to have a child with. And he has been. So from my own experience, without a really solid sign in the right direction, no, I would not have a child with someone!

Someone also said once that you can get married again but the father of your children is in your life forever so choose very carefully.

The fact he is gaming to help him escape his feelings is an even bigger red flag.

Parenting isn't exactly an easy gig, how is he going to react in the times when it inevitably feels hard and exhausting? He's going to escape and leave you literally holding the baby.

He seems emotionally immature. That doesn't make him s a terrible person, but it does mean he isn't great partner material if having kids is important to you.

Hell no! Don’t let him try to be the victim in this. The consequences of his shitty behaviour is your considered response. He may not like it but the truth hurts sometimes.

The guy that he is now, will probably be the guy that he’ll be with kids.

Giving your considered reasons for not entertaining having a kid with this man, may I ask why you are putting up with his crap now? Stop arguing about his lack of effort and stop living together. The living experiment failed, he isn’t grown up enough and you aren’t his Mum.

He's not even engaging his own therapist OP. You cant save someone who doesn't see a problem to be saved from, all you can do is save yourself from their vortex.

I predict in years to come you'll end up fighting child arrangements with this inept, disinterested, avoidant, gaslighting, controlling addict who wants to punish you for "making him depressed again" by leaving.

Have children with someone who won't ruin your life - and theirs.

Honestly, it’s talk. He’s spun it around so he’s a victim and actually excessive gaming can lead to depression (and I was a gamer!)
Riddle me this, if he’s gaming to stave off depression wouldn’t he be happier spending that time with you instead of being stuck to a console? As for the housework, that’s just part of being a grown up and living in a tidy environment helps to lift your mood

I cannot BELIEVE he had the gall to tell you that he plays video games to "stop depression". Where's his therapy, medication, meditation, diet and exercise regime?

No. Instead, he plays video games because they're distracting and addictive.

He has literally been acting like you're his new mum doing all the domestic stuff, and now he's using this to emotionally blackmail you. It's bullshit. It's a toddlers reaction.

Maybe once he's lived by himself as a grown up for a while he'd be a decent partner again, but meanwhile, you don't owe it to him to stick around and wait.

OP,

Please don't fall for this manipulation.

For goodness sake, help yourself.

Get therapy.

That you would move in an pay for this waster and believe this line you are being fed is so sad to read.

If you don't get a grip you are going to knowingly get caught by a complete clusterfxxk of a man who is going to use you.

You are surely not SO dim to buy his line, surely?🙄

At least if you choose to have a kid with him you know exactly what you’re in for, so you won’t need to be one of the many, many women who bleat ‘I thought he’d change!’
It’ll be years of you doing the arsewiping, thinking, planning, feeding, cleaning, ferrying about as the boyfriend continues to do fuck all. You’ll hear the old cliches of ‘just tell me what to do!/well I’m tired too!’ and know that you walked into this with your eyes wide open. It’d be a shame to not raise your standards, but good luck.

What depresses me is that thread after thread after thread on MN is filled with women making excuses for their loser partners. The OP has said she saw it with her mother, yet is still taken in by this bollocks. 🙄 She's gone from an independent woman, paying her own way, to someone knackering themselves because their lazy partner only lifts a finger to do the bits he likes. Why do we collectively have such low standards???

There are so many threads in here about gaming fathers, they never end well

YANBU OP. I am in a similar situation - DP and I live together and he also thinks if he can't do his own hobbies for 2hrs a day then he has a hard life! I am really not fussed about having kids, he mentions it often and I repeatedly tell him that I need to see some real changes in his behaviour and how he treats our home before I'd ever consider it! You are not wrong.

He will step up as soon as he is obliged to, when he has a kid?

Firstly the fact you do everything other than cooking shows he is not stepping up, why does he think he isnt obliged to do his half of the organisation and chores in the house?

Secondly no one steps up and has a massive personality change when they are knackered, stressed and have undergone a difficult life change.

Yes there are men who take on half of everything and the mental load. I've come down this morning to my husband who has got the kids ready and taken them to school and tidied the kitchen, emptied the dishwasher etc. He had an upbringing though where his parents did an equal amount so I think that's helped.

I think you're being realistic about what having a child is like and he isn't.

he says he would get fully involved as soon as he has an obligation to be

Yeah, that's about as evasive as you can get!

I think you need to clearly outline your expectations of a partnership. I despise housework. Every guy I have ever dated knows if I have to be miserable doing housework, so does he! Best arrangement I had was dividing the jobs and swapping weekly.

So:
Person 1 Washing and putting away, vacuuming, bathrooms, feed pets
Person 2 Groceries (including paying for them), cooking, cleaning kitchen, bins
Both for an hour on weekend dusting, tidying etc

A week of not having to think what's for dinner etc was fantastic - cook did all meal planning and shopping. We learned early on the cook has to clean their mess up otherwise there's disagreements on the mess.

Go through the chores and try to split into an even list. The swapping means neither can say the other does less.

Given he is straight out of home, you'll probably have to agree to what done looks like. Eg kitchen, all work surfaces clear every night etc

We've just had a heart to heart. For the first time he's opened up about why he defaults to screen time and spends so much time gaming - he says he is scared of becoming depressed again (as he was as a teenager) through inaction so he always feels he should keep himself distracted with stimulating games.

Honestly, all this does is make me angry on behalf of all the people with genuine mental health problems. If he's so scared of getting depressed, then he should seek proper support and help.

I am interested in the cooking comment. He does the bulk of the cooking but is he also doing the shopping, meal planning and tidying up? Because I do all of that, work more hours than DH and so yes, I do expect him to take on more of the other domestic chores. And on top of the meal planning/shopping/cooking/tidying up after meals, I STILL do plenty, including pretty much all of the organising/thinking/planning for the kids, for holidays, for events and activities etc. I also am the one who does what I am starting to think of as "niche" cleaning because he will vacuum, clean bathrooms, change bedding but it simply doesn't cross his mind that the banisters or door frames need to be cleaned.

Yours doesn't sound like he has any interest in growing up.

You'd be mad to have a child with him. He's still acting like a child himself, expecting thanks for doing part of his share of the jobs.

There are much better men out there - I'm not sure why you're investing your precious time in this one. Perhaps have therapy and then move on? (Or preferably move on and then have therapy.)

Op please get rid. So much research and study into how to manage depression exists and this guy ignores it all to do what he wants. How convenient.
And you are going to find a therapist not him. Words fail me.
Find a therapist for yourself instead.

Get rid of him now, don't fall for the 'depression' card ... raise your standards. Read the many threads on here (so many it's getting boring and tedious to be honest ) on useless men who don't pull their weight.

Of course decent men exist ... my DH owned and ran his own home before we got together so he knew how to pay bills, do DIY, housework, cook, shop budget etc. And I wouldn't agree to have a DC for ten years (appreciate that wouldn't suit everyone) so I could be 100% sure that he would be a competent father. During that time he volunteered with DC, took kids camping (Scout Leader) and we frequently had nieces and nephews to stay. And I am pleased to say he has been a very supportive Dad ... even now our DS is 20 and they've just had a lovely weekend away together. He will will get home later, do the shopping on the way, do his washing and ironing and have dinner ready for when I get home from work. He's on a days AL today.

And I don't think this is anything special, it's just normal adult behaviour to me.

So many people want DC but don't really understand what the day to day reality is.

I wouldn't buy a potted plant with this guy, much less have a baby with him.
He'll never change.
I would ditch him, if I were you.

Btw - men who do at least 50:50 do exist. My Mum and MiL were sahm but the dads did laundry, cooking, cleaning and taking kids out at weekends. Mums probably did a lot of the child-school-related stuff but the dads did other things like potty training etc.

DH probably does overall a bit less than me, (but not by a large amount - and he might disagree with the assessment!) but does a lot of the mental load stuff (bills, tidying, insurance, admin) - which I hate. I do a lot of the night wakings and early mornings and child-related stuff. I don’t think it changed markedly with kids - he has helped out more during my pregnancy.

It seems that you’re willing to accept him as a suitable OH, though...
You need to re-evaluate how you see yourself, too, perhaps, as wondering if he’s suitable as a Father shouldn’t be the only benchmark...

Yeah….nah.

[quote Timetable99]@lovecomesquickly We moved in together recently and dividing up the housework what feels in a fair way to both of us has been an onging issue. He does much more of the cooking because he likes it but doesn't do anything else unless nagged. This includes all the cleaning, laundry, clutter, beds, general maintenance etc. And I have places like mumsnet to thank for realising I take on the "mental load" - he wouldn't in a million years realise that we need new toothbrush heads or need to buy more paracetamol or the gas meter readings need taking. It's getting exhausting trying different ways of getting him to notice things and I'm not sure he ever will, I presume this would only feel 100 times worse with kids and all the things they need.
It's not that he's particularly grumpy about doing things once asked but he usually sighs or makes pointed comments about how much he's already doing like I should be more appreciative. I don't feel like I should be thanking him for just doing what is asked. I don't get thanks for doing all the laundry and cleaning! Wondering how best to move forward with all this now.[/quote]
You need to point out that he doesn't meet his existing obligations as a partner so why would you think he would step up as a father?
If he's serious he needs to step up without reminding/nagging

It's hard, but you get rid of this one.

It's nothing to do with age even. It's mentality. It's respect. It's personality. It's him.

Don't waste more time, honeslty. It's really hard but if you are late 20s too and you want a family - GET RID.

Me and DH got together mid 20s. Both totally irresponsible, clubbing, partying, didn't have DC for years.

Moved in togehter really quickly.

Not ONCE did I feel that I was the 'mummy' of the house. We both would drag ourselves to do dishes hungover the next day. Both would message asking if anything was needed from the shop, as we were passing. Both shifted the shit when it was required. Basically, we just were... equal.

Basically he wasn't a closet misogynist.

It's nothing to do with growing up. If you've got a boke approaching 30 who basically just is hardwired to see your job, as resident vagina, to deal with the shitwork, then get rid. Not all men think like that, and in order, here is the preference:

1. Have kids with non-misogynist
2. Have kids alone
3. Have kids with misogynist manchild.

Really honestly true.