To think my fiancé is being unrealistic about parenting?

[pinkdaffodils90]

So I’ve been with my fiancé for 5 years, engaged for 2 (postponed due to covid, fingers crossed for next summer) and for the last few years we have talked about moving out of Oxford so we can afford a bigger house and start a family. We’ve always agreed that we only wanted one and that we definitely weren’t ready yet, but as the years have gone on I still haven’t felt ready and have been more and more put off the idea. There’s a few reasons for this-

1. My fiancé has BPD which is largely under control, but does flare up under stress- the upheaval of moving house last year was the closest we’ve ever come to breaking up. Sleep deprivation is also a big trigger for this.

1. We both really enjoy our own space and spending time on separate hobbies. Our perfect weekend (and what we do most Saturdays) is brunch together, then separate afternoons doing our own thing before coming back together for a film and glass of wine in the evening. I know this wouldn’t be possible if we had a child, we’d both have to give up a lot of our independence, and I really don’t want to.

1. We both get stressed when our ‘to-do’ list gets too long in our free time. We both have high pressure jobs with long hours, so our evenings and weekends are precious. I can’t imagine having to constantly worry about childcare, the school run, spending weekends ferrying them back and forth to clubs etc. He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

I don’t seem to be able to get through to him that I have genuine concerns about how we’d manage and how happy it would make us, he just thinks I’m doubting my abilities. I’m sure I’d be a good mum if I wanted to be one, but I don’t. He keeps talking about wanting to take them camping and on bike rides and give his parents a grandchild to spoil, and I think he’s hyper focused on those idealised moments and not the actual reality.

We have a wonderful relationship and I absolutely adore him, I can’t imagine my life without him, but this is really starting to cause a problem. I don’t want to let him down, but I really don’t think he’s got a clear head about this. I wonder if it’s his biological clock? He’s 42 and I’m 31.

I suppose I’m mostly just venting, but any advice would be very welcome.

'But I suppose I am less willing to consider it in this relationship because of how much more challenging it would be'

You're very sensible and clear headed. You may change your mind about not wanting children, and then again you may not! Plenty of people don't. All you can do is go with how you feel right now. You're absolute right to resist getting talked into it by him. You know damn well that you would have to keep the entire show on the road by yourself, at least some of the time. Why on earth would you do that to yourself when you're pretty sure that you don't want a baby anyway?

Ok, you don't want a child. Then let him go if he wants, with love and your blessing. I know you've said he can go if he really wants, but the fact that you are still discussing with him how it would work, when you don't want them, gives him false hope.

If you don't want children at all, then this has very little to do with his mental health. It's fine to change your mind, but that might come at the cost of your relationship - frankly if you want different things out of life then that's a huge grief which lies ahead almost whatever you do.

OP I really believe you trying to bring him around to your way of thinking is a bad move. It's like him trying daily to talk you into having a baby

He wants what he wants.
You want what you want.

You are being unfair trying to get him to "see the realities" - why do this?! He clearly wants bloody kids!

I just want him to agree that the happiest path for him is to not have a child

Sorry but you really can't do that. If he wants a child then he wants a child and it's unlikely he is going to agree happily that he can't have one. It's not something that just goes away. And maybe the only way he can have a child is by finding a wife who will do nearly all the heavy lifting for him and will tolerate his unhappiness (and maybe her own) if it isn't enough. Maybe that woman exists, maybe not, that's not something you can decide.

What you do have yourself, is the power to decide whether you are going to try to be that woman or not. I would vote for "not".

I also think it is unrealistic to expect that your relationship can continue happily and unchanged. Realistic or not, it really sounds as if you want different things from now on.

Hasn't he realised that women aren't baby vending machines ?
He doesn't have to have his body ruined or his body image.
Doesn't have to deal with sickness.
No scars.
He won't have to do night feeds if you breastfeed.
Sounds like he's realised his life won't change much, yours however, will.

Don't have a baby if you don't want to it's as simple as that

It sounds like you have a more realistic handle on his illness than he does. Maybe he minimises and ‘forgets’ the times when he’s ill and how much you support him every day. Most people don’t want to dwell on their illnesses but he is doing you a real disservice by not acknowledging how his illness will impact on family life. He is also not acknowledging that subconsciously he is expecting you to make it all work while he is having his ‘space ‘ time.
When my children were small, I used to set my alarm half an hour before they got up so I could have a quiet cup of tea and get up to speed. That was it for the rest of the day until they went to bed, and even then there was chores to get through.
If you nearly broke up over a house move, twenty years of child rearing is not for him!

Those idealised moments are reality - a bike ride is what most kids do
Camping is what some families do

If you don't want to be a mum, don't do it. It's not for everyone. It's probably best this is set in stone before you get married.

If you are really sure that you don't want a DC, you need to tell him so, in as many words, asap. This is a marriage deal-breaker; you cannot marry him with the two of you on different pages about this

This, big time. If the sexes were reversed this thread would be full of people angry at you stringing your fiancee along.

@DeepaBeesKit

If you are really sure that you don't want a DC, you need to tell him so, in as many words, asap. This is a marriage deal-breaker; you cannot marry him with the two of you on different pages about this

This, big time. If the sexes were reversed this thread would be full of people angry at you stringing your fiancee along.

She's already told him.

@Tabbacus

You also sort of talk (ironically) like you're his mother, do you see him as equal to you?

I do, absolutely. He’s a smart, capable person and we have a good partnership. We have adapted to make life work around his needs but it’s never felt like a big effort or like I’m being his mother. Sometimes he’s ill and I care for him. If I am ill he does the same for me. I just think he’s got a blind spot about how well a child would fit into the delicate balance we’ve achieved.

Poor bloke!

Genuinely, why? He loves being independent, he’d leave me if he wanted to! So I can’t be that bad. I love him to bits, we’re just having a major communication issue at the moment.

Can you spend a few weekends "borrowing" different age children so he can see what it's actually like?

I absolutely think you can see the reality that for you to have a child with him you would end up with sole responsibility for them. Your DP would be more stressed etc and there is no way of knowing if the food bits would compensate the hard work.

Ultimately at this time you are 100% sure you do not want a child with him ever.

All you can do is be brutally honest. I wouldn't get into reasons beyond that you like the life you have together know and you aren't prepared to risk your current lifestyle by having a baby ever. Absolutely put it in writing and ask him whether he wishes to cancel or postpone the wedding whilst he decides what he wants.

Also sending love OP this must be really hard. I hope it all works out.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Also sending love OP this must be really hard. I hope it all works out.

Thank you, I appreciate the kindness. It is hard.

I’ve written a letter, but he’s had a crap day at work so it can wait until the weekend.

You just need to be crystal clear to him that you don't want children and won't be having them.

Not coaching it in terms of he's being unrealistic.

Simply what you want. No children.

He then has a free choice to decide whether to marry you and not have children.

Or try and find someone else.

You are allowed to change your mind. If you don't want children, or don't want children with him, then that is fine and your prerogative. Posters berating you for changing your mind I think is a bit harsh. Yes if the roles were reversed and this was a man you'd get a real bashing for wasting the 'fertile years' but this isn't the case. It's your body and your (mental) heath as well as his. You sound like you are genuinely concerned for how he'd cope, and the ultimate burden will fall to you.

Never have a child you are not sure you want.

Best wishes for the future.

@GingerFigs

You are allowed to change your mind. If you don't want children, or don't want children with him, then that is fine and your prerogative. Posters berating you for changing your mind I think is a bit harsh. Yes if the roles were reversed and this was a man you'd get a real bashing for wasting the 'fertile years' but this isn't the case. It's your body and your (mental) heath as well as his. You sound like you are genuinely concerned for how he'd cope, and the ultimate burden will fall to you.

Never have a child you are not sure you want.

Best wishes for the future.

Thank you. I really do love him and want him to be happy.

I would just say don't underestimate your biological clock kicking in- you are still quite young and you may find you feel differently in 3 or 4 years time and you would then move heaven and earth to have a child. Or maybe not, but it does seem that you want to make a final definitive decision about this now that your future self might not agree with.

I do think a lot of people expect the childfree (and women especially) to change their mind, or to only be childfree because they don’t want a baby with a particular man. Similarly, those that want children aren’t usually encouraged to hold off on making decisions lest they change their minds.

Sure people can change their minds, but plenty don’t when it comes to being childfree. OP, you’ve communicated to your partner but unfortunately he doesn’t seem to actually be listening. Keep your birth control secure at the very least, but I would encourage you to move on tbh. You deserve a relationship where you’re respected, and where you’re on the same page as your partner.

You know you don't want to be a mother. That is the most serious and compelling reason for not having a child.

You are distracting yourself with DF's condition, habits and lifestyle.
 He is distracting himself with  trying to talk you round.   

The bottom line is, you don't want to be a parent so he can't/ won't be a father if he stays with you .

That's what you both need to focus on.

@whumpthereitis

I do think a lot of people expect the childfree (and women especially) to change their mind, or to only be childfree because they don’t want a baby with a particular man. Similarly, those that want children aren’t usually encouraged to hold off on making decisions lest they change their minds.

Sure people can change their minds, but plenty don’t when it comes to being childfree. OP, you’ve communicated to your partner but unfortunately he doesn’t seem to actually be listening. Keep your birth control secure at the very least, but I would encourage you to move on tbh. You deserve a relationship where you’re respected, and where you’re on the same page as your partner.

Thank you for this. I’ve been talking to colleagues about this a lot and all they say is ‘oh you’ll change your mind.’ It does get a bit frustrating after a while. Obviously it’s impossible to both have a child and not have one, so at some point you have to make a choice one way or another and there’s a risk of regret either way. I know I’d rather regret not having a child than regret becoming a mother and the potential harm that could cause me, my partner and our child.

I don’t think he means to be disrespectful though, this isn’t like him. I don’t know if it’s that he’s shutting the conversation down because he finds it too upsetting, or if I’m not being as clear as I could be, or something else. But he’s always cared about my opinions and he has been clear that he doesn’t want to pressure me. He’s a really good man, which is why this feels so awful and upsetting. I don’t want to lose him.

From your updates about him it seems probable that he would find it difficult to meet the demands of parenting. So you’re sensible not to want to have DC with him.

It also sounds like there are some mix ups with respect to his needs (to help his mental health) vs his preferences/wants. Yours are just as important.