School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

I also think 3 detentions across 2 years isn't that great.
Most children won't have any.

Are you actually kidding me??? @trumpisagit
3 detentions in 2 years is amazing. The OP said it was actually 2 detentions in 3 years btw.

My friends and I could rack up 2/3 detentions in one week lol

@videobaby123 for many schools detention is now a first line punishment , it’s not like it was in my day where detention was almost the next thing to expulsion

@videobaby123 for many schools detention is now a first line punishment , it’s not like it was in my day where detention was almost the next thing to expulsion

@Orchidflower1
That’s actually the best suggestion I’ve had as it’s the only one that does inconvenience us all! I’m not sure what time schools open but I’m guessing it’s early. Once I find out why she was late I can suggest this if it turns out it’s her fault although she won’t be doing 90 mins

@Notbornwithit
With respect don’t be silly, put it in context. Disruption to a few school kids for a few minutes is nowhere near as serious as it is if I’m late for work

@horst timekeeping detentions absolutely do work. They are designed to inconvenience the child and if they inconvenience the parent too, then the parent can help by also explaining to the child the consequences or their actions! Yes the timings are longer than the lateness, but that is the point!! If I know I’ll be kept back 5 mins in my break if I’m 5 mins late, or 10 mins for 10 mins etc, I’d care a heck of a lot less than if I was kept back for 20 mins/ an hour. By your logic I’d need to be 20 mins late before my behaviour warranted a 20 minute detention. 20 minutes could be half the lesson! Punishments shouldn’t be the same as the infraction. A burglar isn’t punished by having his house burgled.

Also isolation rooms are small and full of some of the worst behaved kids in the school. The last thing you need is an influx of new kids at lunch time, that’s a recipe for chaos. Clearly you have no experience of teaching let alone manning one of those rooms. It’s hell.

@Notbornwithit if the teacher is organised everything you've mentioned would take less than 30 seconds

[quote FU81]@Notbornwithit
With respect don’t be silly, put it in context. Disruption to a few school kids for a few minutes is nowhere near as serious as it is if I’m late for work[/quote]
I agreed with your points up until this comment
This shows a total disregard for the students and teacher

Having read all of your posts, I don't think this is about the child.
I get a very strong vibe this is about you and only you. This teacher has taken against you for your non compliance of his orders. Bully, misogynistic prick, over zealous, arrogant or whatever. Who knows for sure but there is something about his behaviour that says he's trying to stamp his authority over you, determined to win a pissing contest over a detention.

He has been very disrespectful of your employments.

This teacher is saying the functions of his employment (as in doling out discipline in the form of detentions in this case) are to be adhered to and respected by you but your job is too unimportant to even require prompt attendance of if he deems it necessary to hold you up.

My money is on power tripping misogynistic prick but that's just my opinion.

Just because someone is a teacher, doesn't automatically make them a decent person. Most are wonderful people, of course, but not all. It is, unfortunately, a position open to abuse by power hungry aresholes. I know of plenty of good teachers who have their own battles with the staff's resident prick.

As for the posters who cannot comprehend living in a rural area that is a danger for a child alone in the dark with no lighting and not a soul around, give over, eh? I would not fancy walking alone down unlit country lanes on a dark winter's evening and I am nearly fifty with a twitchy ball kicking foot and a fine right hook. There's also the consideration of the fact OP states the roads are so pot holed that a taxi driver refuses to risk his motor getting damaged by driving down them. I'm not sure any of you would fancy lying in middle of a dark desolate country lane with a broken ankle in the middle of winter. To put that risk on a fourteen year old girl is not something many modern day parents would be comfortable with.

I don't really think you can just say she never can have after school detention. Fair enough this one does not sound deserved. And there should be notice in advance and ideally some flexibility on dates.
But I don't think it's ok to say a 14 year-old can never do detention. By that age it is their problem not mum or dad.
I also think it's a bit rubbish for a 14 year old to have no independence at all. Does she really spend every evening being looked after by grandma and never goes anywhere without a lift from mum? You are at risk of ending up with a very timid young adult.

@TheseBootsWereMadeForSitting don't necessarily disagree with your character assessment of the teacher, but I'd just point out that it takes two to have a pissing competition.

@Newnameforabit

That’s fine but I wonder if you’d agree if you were the person in hospital having your treatment delayed because a member of staff was late, that’s what I mean by context. Nobody will suffer in the long term by a child arriving to class a few minutes late

@TheseBootsWereMadeForSitting

Having read all of your posts, I don't think this is about the child. I get a very strong vibe this is about you and only you. This teacher has taken against you for your non compliance of his orders. Bully, misogynistic prick, over zealous, arrogant or whatever. Who knows for sure but there is something about his behaviour that says he's trying to stamp his authority over you, determined to win a pissing contest over a detention.

He has been very disrespectful of your employments.

This teacher is saying the functions of his employment (as in doling out discipline in the form of detentions in this case) are to be adhered to and respected by you but your job is too unimportant to even require prompt attendance of if he deems it necessary to hold you up.

My money is on power tripping misogynistic prick but that's just my opinion.

Just because someone is a teacher, doesn't automatically make them a decent person. Most are wonderful people, of course, but not all. It is, unfortunately, a position open to abuse by power hungry aresholes. I know of plenty of good teachers who have their own battles with the staff's resident prick.

As for the posters who cannot comprehend living in a rural area that is a danger for a child alone in the dark with no lighting and not a soul around, give over, eh? I would not fancy walking alone down unlit country lanes on a dark winter's evening and I am nearly fifty with a twitchy ball kicking foot and a fine right hook. There's also the consideration of the fact OP states the roads are so pot holed that a taxi driver refuses to risk his motor getting damaged by driving down them. I'm not sure any of you would fancy lying in middle of a dark desolate country lane with a broken ankle in the middle of winter. To put that risk on a fourteen year old girl is not something many modern day parents would be comfortable with.

This. Agree. It seems like they're trying to make you back down.

YANBU.

if it isnt logistically possible they need to find an alternative e.g. lunchtime detention

[quote FU81]@Newnameforabit

That’s fine but I wonder if you’d agree if you were the person in hospital having your treatment delayed because a member of staff was late, that’s what I mean by context. Nobody will suffer in the long term by a child arriving to class a few minutes late[/quote]
Except that’s exactly what happened. Your daughter, who knows if she’s late she’ll get a detention, and also knows that having a detention will make you late for work, and also knows that you being late for work will keep a patient waiting, was still late to class. All the consequences here stem from your child’s lack of punctuality. Not from the teacher. The teacher was enforcing a school rule, put in place to teach children that when they are older and have jobs and people that rely on them, it is important to be on time. Stop going for the school and make sure your daughter knows not to be late again. It’s really not that complicated. If she isn’t late, neither will you be. Your patients were essentially kept waiting by your daughter.

I will still say though that if it turns out it was the tutor’s fault then there shouldn’t have been a detention. But I get the impression that that detail actually isn’t particularly important to you. Which is why I am on the schools side here.

FU81

When my older 2 were in school I was PA so a detention not only made me late for work for which I could have been sacked it also meant the person I cared for would miss out on their meal time routine, planned activities, medical appointments and personnel care.
Late for class and late for work are not comparable in all circumstances I agree.

[quote girlmom21]@Notbornwithit if the teacher is organised everything you've mentioned would take less than 30 seconds [/quote]
Really?

@Notbornwithit yeah really.

I used to tell my mum all the time I was kept behind by a teacher that's why I got detention however I was actually either being slow on purpose, out with people having a cheeky smoke (not me) or just generally p*ssing about . Make sure to follow up with the tutor who she has said kept her behind ... X

This all just seems so excessive and heavy-handed on the part of the school. I had no idea that schools did detentions after school but that seems completely impractical - what is you have siblings at the school and have to pick one up at the end of the school day and another an hour later due to detention - do they really expect parents to make two trips? When I was a school (a long time ago) I'm fairly sure all detentions must have been at lunch or break time, as it was a rural areas and all students travelled by dedicated school buses to their respective villages, they certainly didn't expect students to miss the school bus home due to detention.

I think if the school don't have the staff resources (and making sure teachers get a proper break) to carry out their chosen punishment within school hours then they shouldn't use them. Another reason not to vote a government that consistently underfunded education

My parents had a similar issue except I had a club that was paid upfront and they'd lose their money if I didn't attend and I also had exams related to it so needed to attend to learn the syllabus.
I used to tell the person at school leading the detention that I needed the loo. I'd leave all the things I needed to take home in the nearest cloakroom to the exit. Then I'd pretend to go to the loo, grab all my stuff and peg it to my parents car waiting outside.

Every now and then a teacher would attempt to chase me down the school path. My parents were complicit and used to immediately drive off. Felt like a criminal getting into a getaway car. and after a few missed detentions the teachers phone my parents and said I would cover the detention time over several lunch times. Hehehehehe I'm 35 and still remember that wonderful feeling watching my teachers unamused face out from the window of my parents car.
I'd ring school and ask if there is any alternative such as half lunch hours for a while.

Hard one -on one hand the while point of detention is that it is supposed to be annoying and inconvenient- that's the punishment. If it inconveniences the parent more than the pupil I suppose the idea is that the parent will strongly encourage their child not to get more detentions! I am assuming that the schools position is that most children in secondary school are able to get themselves home - so if you can't pick your daughter up she would be expected to get public transport or walk home which in most cases wouldn't be unreasonable but obviously I don't know your specific circumstances.

An hours detention for being slightly late (with a fair excuse) does seem very excessive though, as does a 90 minute one for missing a detention with an explanation. They should have called you and explained its policy but given her the chance to do it another day rather than going straight to 90mins. What if she'd had a dentist appointment or something?

I don’t think detention works as a solution to bad behaviour anyway, the same kids always seem to be in detention on a weekly basis so it can’t be that effective

Yes, for some kids another detention is water off a duck's back.

But detentions do work as a deterrent for the vast majority of basically well-behaved kids. That wouldn't be the case if we stopped bothering for the naughty ones.

Power-crazy teachers are definitely a thing.
Parents who refuse to back their DCs school because it inconveniences them are also a thing.

It's difficult to know where the balance of blame lies in this particular instance as we don't have every detail we need but I would say a detention is completely OTT if the reason her DD was late was because another teacher held her back, and this could be settled quickly and easily by the teachers.

In general terms, though, a school has to be allowed to impose its rules on its pupils. A parent who decides they are just going to ignore the school is unlikely to be doing their DC any favours.

My DS had a fair few detentions during his time at Secondary school. As the school catchment was mostly rural with 70% of children coming in/out on contracted school buses then after school detentions always had 24 hours notice. The school were aware that our circumstances meant I was not always able to collect DS if he had missed the school bus so they were prepared to discuss the most convenient day (for me) for him to serve the detention. So there was an acknowledgement that it was meant to be DS's punishment and not mine (or his disabled sister's).
At the very least your school should be giving notice so the child can at least ensure they have visible/light clothing and torch if they are expected to walk home on unlit roads in the dark when they would usually go home in daylight. How would the school feel if your daughter was knocked over because she was walking down an unlit lane in the dark wearing her dark coloured coat/school uniform?