School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

The teacher doesn't want to be tied to a lunchtime detection when they have to stay and work after school anyway IMO.

They don't have to. Most schools arrange one detention session for any child who has been given a detention, supervised by one teacher. Therefore, if the school arranges lunchtime detention, there is no requirement that the teacher who gave the detention has to supervise it.

They don't have to. Most schools arrange one detention session for any child who has been given a detention, supervised by one teacher.

Do they really? Not at my school.

I don't think it's fair to have same day detention, notice needs to be given.

@girlmom21

Honestly I'd tell your daughter to not attend any after school detention you aren't already aware of and have catered for.

If a teacher tells her to stay for 20 minutes, tell her to leave.

Detentions don't benefit her education and you can deal with the teachers on her behalf.

The school would soon pipe up if you lost your job and couldn't afford the uniforms or breakfast for your children, wouldn't they.

This really isn't good advice. The OP should not tell her daughter to leave when it suits her. That is an infantile defiance.The OP may not find it easy to deal with the teachers because they will be dealing with her - they have experience in handling people who think the discipline policy doesn't apply to their child. The OP should be careful not to escalate this any further. Internal exclusion is no laughing matter nor are further measures. The best thing would be to provide a taxi to bring her home. Then you have to talk to her about her behaviour - any further detentions and she walks home.

@SammyScrounge given the teacher is choosing to act like some kind of dictator and give children detentions for things outside of their control and then speak to parents like morons, I don't think the school have a leg to stand on escalation-wise.

Sammy the OP has mentioned numerous times about her rural location and the lack of taxis.

OP is not telling her DD to leave when it suits her but she has said that her DD is unable to do the after school detention.

While I think it's unreasonable to issue an after school detention for being held back by another teacher, I do find your apparent reluctance to work with and hostility towards the school strange.

The 90 minute detention is not for being a few minutes late, is it. It's for failing to attend the 60 minute detention. And that, I imagine, was for repeating being late for a lesson. The first detention was 20mins, right? That does sound reasonable for a rare lateness.

Schools most likely won't manhandle your child into a detention, or restrain them, but there is a discipline system that will outline what happens at each stage if a child (or parent) refuses to engage with it. At my last school, for example, things could escalate from lunchtime detention, to 30mins after school, to an hour after school, to a 2 hour Head's detention, to isolation, to fixed exclusion to permanent exclusion. So for families that refused to engage with the discipline system, they'd eventually find themselves without a place at the school. I'm not suggesting that permanent exclusion is at all necessary in this situation, over lateness, and in 20 years, it's rarely got to that stage(and never for lateness), however in almost every case I've seen, the parents have been a bit more willing to negotiate and support the school.

Meant to also add, my first step would have been to ask the tutor to speak to the teacher to explain the legitimate reason for lateness. I think you have done that?

The idea of an after school detention is that it does put you out so your child is inconvenienced so hopefully they won’t do it again. If other students are given detentions after school but your Dd is allowed to do lunchtime ones won’t that look a bit unfair and undermine the teachers decision. Also the teacher might be too busy at lunchtime to sit with her. Unfortunately it’s you that’s put out but it’s your daughter who needs to remember that it really badly impacts on mum when she gets a detention.

If she has been at secondary school 3 years she must be 14/15 and surely doesnt need childcare. Couldnt she have got a bus or you ordered a taxi?
School dont have to give prior notice of a detention but they d have to take into account the student's safety. If she cannot catch her normal school transport, that might be an issue

@A8mint

If she has been at secondary school 3 years she must be 14/15 and surely doesnt need childcare. Couldnt she have got a bus or you ordered a taxi? School dont have to give prior notice of a detention but they d have to take into account the student's safety. If she cannot catch her normal school transport, that might be an issue

Couldn't you have read the thread before asking the same question that's already been answered 45 times.

I agree with you @FU81 if it was my child they wouldn’t be doing the detention. You also informed the school that your daughter would not be doing the detention so the 90 minute detention should not have been issued for non attendance.

The form tutor needs to sort this out as they were the reason your child got the detention in the beginning.

I totally support schools giving detentions for no homework and being rude/naughty etc but this situation should not have occurred.
My child recently got a detention for the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard off. I spoke to the teacher and said my child would not doing the detention and if anything it’s me that should be doing the detention as I didn’t know about some crazy rule they had she backed down in the end.

Iit is true that some parents absolutely take the piss and encourage their dc not to comply with detentions etc. However, surely it is very much in the interests of schools to make it easier and more likely for parents to comply with their behaviour policies, by minimising thrse kinds of obstacles. The more excuses you give people to opt out of following the rules, the more they will do so. Anyone who's saying the point of detentions is to inconvenience parents - that doesn't work so well if the parents think 'Stuff that! My child's not attending', does it?

Tbh no wonder teachers and schools find it hard to enforce discipline with some of the responses here.

Most of us who have said no to the after school detention are more than happy for the school to give punishments just in their time.

I’ll back up the school making my child write lines, lunch or break detentions and behavioural points or an internal exclusion if needed.

I just don’t agree with them basically wanting to punish my child in my time for something they did at school, as I said I don’t ask school to give a punishment because my child behaved at home that’s my job to do in my time.

If my child had been terrible at school I may also give a home punishment but that’s my choice.

Tbh no wonder teachers and schools find it hard to enforce discipline with some of the responses here.

I'm a teacher. You have to meet parents half-way on these things if you want the management of their child's behaviour to be a co-operative thing. Taking tye attitude of 'Their kid misbehaved, so they get inconvenienced. Tough shit.' is unhelpful to everyone. And it makes parents who are largely inclined to support the school less keen to do so.

It also reinforces some parents' impression that punishing kids is a 'power trip' or something that teachers do because they enjoy it, which is clearly not true. Any teacher would rather have well-behaved students than dish out detentions!

The reason schools find it hard to enforce discipline is because they literally can't enforce discipline. You can tell a kid to do something or not to do something, but you can't force them. Often neither can the parents.

@Willowowisp

Tbh no wonder teachers and schools find it hard to enforce discipline with some of the responses here.

The responses here are sensible, feasible solutions to a situation where the alternative isn't feasible.

In other professional roles, if someone can't make a meeting we reschedule it. Yes, you could argue that said person should make themselves available at any time during working hours. But sensible people know that isn't always an option so they adapt.

A lot of teachers don't understand this. They are blinkered from years of dealing with children and being surrounded by others who have spent years dealing with children. They lack the common sense, empathy and intelligence to realise that sometimes a problem requires a different solution.

The OP's child has circumstances that prevent her from attending a detention after school. Therefore her daughter is either punished a different way or not punished at all.

OP - I don't understand what the issue is. You have commitments that means your daughter can't attend a detention after school, so she simply doesn't attend.

Inform the teacher that your daughter won't be attending the detention, explain your reasons if you have to and then that's it. Full stop. Your daughter goes home and if the teacher expects to see her in detention after you've explained it to them then more the fool them.

Putting it in writing might be a good idea. Then get on with your life.

Do you really expect the school to keep a log of every parent's work responsibilities and organise detections to fit in around them?
And why would you teach your child that rules don't apply to her because it's inconvenient to her mum?
I'm sure she's spun you a story about why it's unreasonable - and you've bought into it.

From the governments point of view schools are a place where children must be brainwashed from a young age that their life is not their own and they must at all times conform with what they are forced to do or they will face punishment to make sure they do.

Their grown up parents who were also Brainwashed from the same young age have learnt that unless you comply with them life is made very difficult and this type of government manipulation is not something you can avoid as they are big bullies who disguise their punishment/blackmail as (consequence) a term used as a mind game to make you think it's your actions that "made" them do it to disguise their power and intimidation.

Anyone who doesn't comply or dares to question this is seen as weird or to have mental health problems so people do not, which is reinforced by a society of scaredy cats who live obediently trying to be accepted in a society that takes advantage of them because they fear doing something (out of line) and having to accept the "consequence" so they do as they are told no questions asked and teach discipline to their children so they don't face the feared public humiliation.

The government then plays us off against each other making us believe that in order to succeed we must be better than others and work the hardest for the least, arriving earliest and leaving latest and "happily" going the extra mile (a requirement in most jobs) this mindset leads to unhealthy competition which leads to the putting down of others in order to look good and the showing of complying and appease to try and win approval. Now we teach this toxic nonsense to our children so they can teach it to theirs.

How do they propose to enforce this?
I’d simply be collecting my child as normal in these circumstances.!

People on this thread are bonkers. Of course detention after school is unreasonable if it makes OP late for work. Any other responses are mental.

I have long thought that some teachers actually hate kids and are on a power trip.

In other professional roles, if someone can't make a meeting we reschedule it. Yes, you could argue that said person should make themselves available at any time during working hours. But sensible people know that isn't always an option so they adapt.

A lot of teachers don't understand this. They are blinkered from years of dealing with children and being surrounded by others who have spent years dealing with children. They lack the common sense, empathy and intelligence to realise that sometimes a problem requires a different solution.

It's funny how often people in 'other professional roles' accuse teachers of being blinkered and lacking in common sense (or even intelligence- how bloody rude) for not doing things how people do them in other jobs. It doesn't seem to occur to them that they haven't a fucking clue are equally blinkered and ignorant about how things work in schools, and the fact that dealing with large groups of teenagers and potentially highly dysfunctional or difficult parents isn't actually very similar to working with colleagues and clients. It requires a lot of empathy and intelligence actually. By the time it gets to the point of major problems requiring parental involvement, a lot of empathy and intelligence have usually already been tried.

I'm all in favour of facilitating school-parent cooperation, but it would help if 'professional' parents realised that teachers are also skilled professional people. Obviously you get some bad ones, as you do in any job.

Speak to the head. I think a lot of people, including the teacher, struggle to understand how difficult it is for kids to get around in a rural area. We are 5 miles from school, theoretically ds could cycle but there is no way I would allow it on these roads in the dark. Dh is pretty fearless and he wouldn’t consider it!

That aside, the teacher is being absolutely ridiculous. Dd needs to speak to her tutor and explain what has happened so she can put things right, and I would definitely complain so this doesn’t happen again. 90 minute is utterly ridiculous.

@Pazuzu

And people wonder why schools are in the state they're in.

No issue with the behaviour at all (let's be realistic here, I doubt a school will give an hour detention for a single minor occurrence), only a pile on saying how wrong the school is.

Best way to deal with detention related issues is surprisingly enough don't get detentions.

Oh they absolutely do hand out hour detentions for minor things. I only ever got one detention at school, it was for an hour (granted during lunch time not after school) for not colouring my homework, not that it was an art lesson or anything.