School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

Couldn't agree more with this. I work in a secondary and it is this that is one of our major problems.

@Notbornwithit how on earth can you expect parents to support a system that makes them late for work?!

I find it unbelievable that so many adults are unable to think critically and instead just blindly go along with everthing, no matter how arbitrary, because "those are the rules".

Usually people will be on your side if your requests are reasonable. Here, we have an unreasonable request and a disproportionate response. Again, why should anyone respect a system like that?

I'm shocked by this. I'm a teacher but not in the UK. I can't believe they are allowed to behave like this. We would always give notice on detention.

You have to meet parents half-way on these things if you want the management of their child's behaviour to be a co-operative thing.

Problem is, there is no half way in this scenario. This is the parent’s way, “no detention after school” which means the parent at no point has to meet halfway because it’s either not after school ever, or it is. OP is not considering the compromise of ‘sometimes’ or ‘with notice’ (Gove removed the previous requirement for notice).

I would like to make the point that sometimes, not doing a detention at lunch is because either a teacher is teaching, already supervising something or having to meet (often with parents) so please don’t assume that it is just a teacher being lazy, just like we shouldn’t assume the teenager isn’t telling the truth.

When your DD starts her GCSE’s OP, I’m wondering if you have factored in any after school support sessions or late finishing exams (mocks etc.) into your current routine?

Anyway, this is clearly a polarising topic to many, of which either the OP gets her way or the teacher does. Let’s find out, I guess!

Regardless of the situation, a teacher giving detention because another teacher kept them back is ridiculous.

[quote Snoozer11]@Notbornwithit how on earth can you expect parents to support a system that makes them late for work?!

I find it unbelievable that so many adults are unable to think critically and instead just blindly go along with everthing, no matter how arbitrary, because "those are the rules".

Usually people will be on your side if your requests are reasonable. Here, we have an unreasonable request and a disproportionate response. Again, why should anyone respect a system like that?[/quote]
Well it doesn't have to make her late for work. There are umpteen ways around this that don't make the op late for work, nor allow the Dd to miss the detention. The op is choosing the option that makes her late for work.

You seem to have every reason under the sun why no possible alternative transport works etc etc

Secondary schools arent usually in the middle of nowhere. Can't she walk to a public library, friends house or cafe on the rare occasion this happens until her dad or another family member can come and collect her?

Schools can do this as the system is set up on the basis that secondary kids don't require childcare and can transport themselves to/from school, either walking or if the catchment school is over a certain distance, going on school buses etc. If you choose a non catchment school you run the risk of this sort of inconvenience.

Why should teachers give up their lunchtime for your schedule. Maybe you should tell your dd to get to lesson on time and point out how it’s affecting you.

What will happen if she’s late for work in the future because she hasn’t been taught punctuality earlier? She’d be sacked.

Stop working against the teacher and do your kid a favour and accept the consequences of her actions.

@NeedsCharging

I used to have a very tight pick up schedule like you OP with 2 in Primary and 2 in High School. Detentions would cause me to be late for work so I gave my DC my permission to leave school at the end of the day and not stay for Detentions.

The school cannot force your child to stay back. I did have the obvious irrate teacher call and I explained my situation and stated that DC would lose 30 mins TV time/x box/phone time once we got home but the Detention was not an option.

They were not happy but I am afraid my job was more important than their need to punish my child for a minor indiscretion.

And this is why kids at school think they rule the roost. Spineless parents are the cause of decay in our schools.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/discipline-within-school/

So based on That the ops child would be placed at risk of harm by having to walk alone in the dark for an hour I think she said down unlit county roads that are so badly full of pot holes even taxis refuse to drive down them.

@EarPlugAfficionado

Why should teachers give up their lunchtime for your schedule. Maybe you should tell your dd to get to lesson on time and point out how it’s affecting you.

What will happen if she’s late for work in the future because she hasn’t been taught punctuality earlier? She’d be sacked.

Stop working against the teacher and do your kid a favour and accept the consequences of her actions.

Have you read what the poster has actually written?? Her daughter was only late because the form tutor kept her back to talk to her about a tournament. She didn’t decided to pop somewhere before her lesson or pop to the toilet she was talking to her form tutor!

[quote FU81]@Newnameforabit

That’s fine but I wonder if you’d agree if you were the person in hospital having your treatment delayed because a member of staff was late, that’s what I mean by context. Nobody will suffer in the long term by a child arriving to class a few minutes late[/quote]
And what happens if its not just your child who's late? What if the teacher has to delay/repeat what they need to tell the class 2/3/4times?
As I said I was all for you until that comment, you need to change your attitude as although I can genuinely see your point, but that sort of comment does not make you look good
You have locked horns with the teacher now, look for solutions

First thing your dd should have done is spoken to her form tutor: 'miss, you know when you kept me for 20 minutes into period 1 to talk about the tournament, well, Mr Bloggs gave me a detention for being late - could you email him & explain?' Sorted.

I would say it's vanishingly unlikely that that's how it went down, but if it did happen, that's that dealt with.

Assuming dd is in fact bang to rights for pratting about for 20 minutes & trying to pin it on the tutor...

Individual teachers don't usually just get to give out after school detentions on a whim. There's a system.

Where I teach, 4 lates or 4 behaviour points or a combo adding up to 4 gets you a detention.

Parents are notified, the child attends, 95% of the time that's the end of the matter.

Failure to attend = lengthier HT detention on a Friday.

Failure to attend that = not allowed back into class until a day in isolation has been served.

More than one isolation in a half term = not allowed back into class before a school/parent meeting has been held & a behaviour contract signed.

Breach of behaviour contract = invited to find a new school.

If a parent didn't want to support the school behaviour system, obviously we are not the right school for their child & we would advise them to consider other options.

So - once the poor form tutor has been eliminated from inquiries - I'd suggest a repeated request for detention on a different day, to allow for arrangements to be made.

If they won't budge or you won't, then the chips will just fall where they may. Internal isolation, probably. Most kids hate that & are careful not to land there again...

@Horst

So based on That the ops child would be placed at risk of harm by having to walk alone in the dark for an hour I think she said down unlit county roads that are so badly full of pot holes even taxis refuse to drive down them.

'Walk home in the dark' What, like thousands upon billions of other secondary aged children who do exactly that. 'Walk for an hour' What, like thousands upon billions of other secondary aged children who do exactly that. 'Along unlit country lanes.' Fair enough, though none of us here other than the op know the exact layout, but it's unlikely to be the whole hour, just the last stretch. So, as many many posters have suggested, and been ignored, walk where it's safe to do so, to a friends, a cafe, a library, the shops, a leisure centre, anywhere, and wait!

I'm an old fahioned cow but I preferred to make miscreants do something extra rather than a detention. My first line punishment was to memorise a Shakespeare sonnet - fail to do that and then you'd be in detention until you'd learnt it. I had a number of pupils who knew quite a few by the time they left school .

Gone are the days when teachers had that level of independence from SLT though.

It is weird that parents whose children couldn't possibly do a detention under any circumstances due to logistics are coincidentally also the ones who dont really see the need for detentions anyway and think a bit of low level disruption and rule breaking is fine. And whom the teachers are victimising for some reason.

The teacher sounds like an absolute twat! I’d be making a complaint about them bullying your child. In what way is a detention because you’re delayed by another TEACHER fair? He’s victimizing her and needs to be pulled up on it, quick smart. I’d go to the head and the governors.

That relies on any of that being possible. Even in the city here the library’s only open a couple of days and shuts by 4pm. If op is in the country side likely so are most of ops child’s friends and your also relying on any of her friends actually being home and being willing to have the child there.

A cafe or shops your relying on the ops family actually have spare money for the Dd to be able to sit there and wait it out, leisure centres don’t tend to be in the middle of no where either and again don’t tend to just let 14 year olds sit there for an hour or two doing nothing.

Yes children walk in the dark but 90 minutes after 3pm it’s pretty much pitch black so the whole trip would be in the dark. Just because you’d be ok with your child doing that doesn’t mean anyone else has to be with theirs.

You can come up with as many excuses each way tbh or the school can actually you know work with the parent who’s saying by all means punish my child but it’s not possible after school hours. She’s even said she’s ok with before school hours just cannot do after hours.

My child’s never been given a detention I just don’t believe in after school detention.

I teach (albeit at a university) and I can't for the life of me understand why some teachers (this applies to universities as well) seem to be on a power trip. There are students late to my class too from time to time. They walk in, sit down, I continue talking. It's really not the end of the world and doesn't disrupt anything. And thinking parents are going to respect a system that could cause them tonlose their jobs is pretty mental. How would the teacher like it if she was purposefully made to be late for class?

Parents should be supporting the teachers not being the ones that allow their kids to not attend. It completely undermines the teacher and knowing they are allowed to do what they want by not attending makes them very smug. I never set lunch time detentions, duties and wanting an actual break from kids!!! You should be supporting the school and stop making excuses. If in secondary school she is old enough to make her way to your MILS!!!

@CorvusPurpureus *Breach of behaviour contract = invited to find a new school.

If a parent didn't want to support the school behaviour system, obviously we are not the right school for their child & we would advise them to consider other options.*

Well that's off rolling and illegal

They walk in, sit down, I continue talking

I wish that that was also the case in Secondary schools. Sounds bliss.

I remember when I got an after school detention. I couldn't make the days they asked for as I had to get a train to visit my father about an hour away. So had to leave to walk to to the station. So they rung up and so no after-school detentions and this was accepted. I then did them during the day ( when I remembered ) 😜. I came out with very good results though. I remember one teacher hated me and was persistent in giving them to me she was responsible for over 90%! Fucking Cow. The others teacher when I did turn up looked very alarmed and asked me if I got it wrong! Ha ha. I remember one time during the day I sat and had a really grand discussion with my philosophy teacher. A lone male with a lone female student probably shouldn't have been allowed but the school didn't care. I remember one teacher giving me the creeps, turns out he had form for sleeping with the girl pupils and his wife turned a blind eye! 🤢