To ask you to see who girl guides support.

[RedCarpetRebellion]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/amp/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

A woman sacked for speaking up for girls safety was replaced by this person.

Girl guides are not safe for girls. AIBU?

I'll say it again, an organisation stated to be for women and girls is a single sex space and there should never ever be a need for barrier contraception in the first place.

It was bad enough when it was reported that inmates in women's prisons in California were being given condoms wbckfm.com/california-supply-womans-prisons-condoms-biological-men-housed-prisons/

Now it's our children.

This ideology harms vulnerable women and children.

Anyone turning a blind eye to this is complicit.

It's reprehensible.

@AdamRyan

Two 14 or 15 year olds having sex, whilst not being over the age of consent, will not fall foul of the law. It would be in no-one's interest to prosecute them. That's decriminalisation. It's still not legal - by law they can't consent. I'm very suspicious of someone/organisations who takes the decriminalisation position and uses it to imply 13-16 year olds can consent and therefore should be supplied contraceptives without parents being aware (with the exception of health are professionals). It's a massive safeguarding risk. Especially when adults over the age of 18 with penises are in a position where they have access to underage females.

Again, this isn't quite the legal position.

Those under 13 cannot consent in any circumstances and an offence will always have been committed in law if a 13 year old or under has been involved in sexual activity with another person.

If someone under 16 but older than 13 is involved in sexual activity with another person then although they cannot consent legally, whether an offence has been committed will be determined by other factors, such as the ages of those involved, whether one had a position of power over the other etc.

As an example, it may be deemed that a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old has not committed an offence. The same conclusion is unlikely to be reached if a 30 year old has sex with a 14 year old. In both scenarios, there is a person involved who cannot consent but only in one is an offence committed.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

"Last night, Helen Watts tweeted her reaction: "In case you forgot, I was thrown out of Girlguiding, ostensibly for breaching the social media policy, when I objected to sex self ID.

Initially it had bypassed me entirely that this was Helen Watts' position. That REALLY only adds to the questions that need to be asked.

Was this just an error or is it yet another of those deliberate 'take overs' we have seen in other organisations just a little bit too late?

Is this really true? Helen was in Ealing, London wasn't she? And Monica in Nottinghamshire? Is this just something to make the story a bit more juicy?

I don't think they need to look far for genuine stories about safeguarding failures by Girlguiding

Not interested in debating the precise legal definition of when underage children can consent to sex.
People who plant a seed that children can be expected to be having sex on a trip for one gender, are shady in my opinion and not acting in those children's best interest.

@Eggybrains you are right - Helen Watts is from Ealing and this individual is from Nottinghamshire.

I would be extremely surprised if they are linked.

As I said upthread, it would be great if we could stick to the facts and not start trying to exaggerate or make things up. It doesn't help our position. Unless we have proof that this is the same position?

@AdamRyan

Not interested in debating the precise legal definition of when underage children can consent to sex. People who plant a seed that children can be expected to be having sex on a trip for one gender, are shady in my opinion and not acting in those children's best interest.

It's not a debate, it's demonstrable fact.

And I don't think they are planting a seed. I think it's important that teenagers of appropriate ages have access to contraception if needed. I've also not seen anything about sex taking place on trips, but a lot of posters seem to have latched on to that and it's been repeated often. My reading of the policy is that it's for girls to ask if they need them for general use. Teen girls may well be having sex outside of Guides trips and GG may be the only place they feel they can ask adults for help. I'd like to think they can be supported and given help in an appropriate way at Guides if needed, especially where they may not be able to access doctors independently (the NHS will also give you free condoms) or may not have the money to buy them, for example.

[quote Lockheart]@Eggybrains you are right - Helen Watts is from Ealing and this individual is from Nottinghamshire.

I would be extremely surprised if they are linked.

As I said upthread, it would be great if we could stick to the facts and not start trying to exaggerate or make things up. It doesn't help our position. Unless we have proof that this is the same position?[/quote]
Yes, I also noted this. And as far as I'm aware they held different positions. Helen has written about being a Unit Leader.

Why on earth was I deleted? I said that the organisation appeared to have been infiltrated and taken over by perverts. My experience of those at grass roots level is that they are extremely dedicated women wanting the best for their girls . This is a top-down attempt to disrupt the ethos of GG.

Let's not forget though who was brought in as a consultant to GG to proudly shape their policies.

A male activist for the legalisation of extreme porn, including campaigning for the lowering of the age of porn actors to 16.

One who has implied that those males who murder their wives in DV are not really responsible due to the 'eggshell skulls' of those wives. And other misogynistic quotes. But was acclaimed as a top 100 lesbian last year.

*Is this really true? Helen was in Ealing, London wasn't she? And Monica in Nottinghamshire? Is this just something to make the story a bit more juicy?

I don't think they need to look far for genuine stories about safeguarding failures by Girlguiding*

I think that the confusion comes from this article www.newarkadvertiser.co.uk/news/amp/investigation-launched-into-guide-commissioners-social-medi-9227238/

linked earlier in the thread which states -

'Her appointment followed the departure of previous commissioner Helen Watts, who left the organisation after stating girls had a right to female-only spaces.'

That can easily be misinterpreted as suggesting that this person took over from Helen Watts which is not the case.

@Helleofabore what is this new circle of hell???

Does it ever stop?

[quote brighousepres]@Eggybrains - you have concerns beside ditching girls rights? Please tell us what they are. GG aren’t going to tell us!

The GG policies are resulting in reducing the safety of girls in its care. I have a 10 year old and I’d like to know more please.

Clearly GG aren’t advertising their shitty policies and plus they allow all kinds of questionable behaviour from its leaders as evidenced by the sexual and gun social media.[/quote]
Where do I start?

Not bothering with recruitment checks like DBS - it's left up to volunteers, so you're relying on them to do them, and they may or may not have the training/ skills/ inclination to do so. I know this has happened but I don't know how widespread it is. Based on my very small sample size however, it's not uncommon. I think that they need to have an employed person who actually has a responsibility to ensure that this happens. This is absolutely basic.

Risk assessments - not adequate training/ skills. Again done by volunteers. These often aren't read and are appalling, to the extent I'm concerned that an insurer would try to wriggle out of liability if an incident occurred and they saw the risk assessments.

Direct and indirect discrimination against disabled people - they apologised for this in May, but seem to have done nothing to fix it other than put out some tweets "shout out to our asexual members" etc..

Appalling behaviour towards anyone who dares to speak up.

Do you want me to go on.....?

Discrimination towards disabled people? That is absolutely appalling.

Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

What sexual boundaries does a person have when they are posting this stuff on line, knowing what the safeguarding and the leadership rules are for the organisation they are volunteering for? I actually think that in this instance, it is entirely relevant. And this shows the faults in their processes that it was not picked up. It was being posted before their appointment in July.

[quote PumpkinGin]@Helleofabore what is this new circle of hell???

Does it ever stop?[/quote]
I know! Right?

Sory @Eggybrains I meant the whole story around her as a GG leader, not that it was in the same place, that she personally had been replaced by this person. Though A N Other woman obviously was!

Not disinformation, just a tad too vaguely phrased.

One may not have replaced the other, but it still indicates who is welcome in Girlguiding under their new rules and who isn't, and why.

@oxalisRed

Can we please just pause and consider this phrase "girls with penises"? Say it out loud to yourself. Hear the inherent absurdity, the absolute denial of reality.

As @Ionlydomassiveones posted earlier
Gender dysmorphia is a condition that needs psychological treatment. Or people need to chill out about what clothes people wear. It does not need society to be turned upside down and laws to be changed to appease those who would deny reality.

Gender ideology is incredibly harmful at best, systemic misogyny in disguise.

Just want to flag that the Govt is currently consulting about banning "conversion therapy". But this is not what you think it is. Traditionally, conversion therapy is a term used when attempts are made to turn gay people straight (practices found in some religious groups), which is indeed egregious and abusive to LGB people.

Here, they are terming as "conversion therapy" any talking therapy that may help people with gender dysphoria, that explores those feelings and the causes for it, rather than simply affirming that they are indeed the opposite sex and therefore require medical treatments like surgery and hormones. More about it here:

sex-matters.org/take-action/write-to-your-mp-press-pause-on-legislation-on-conversion-therapy/

[quote RedCarpetRebellion]@PumpkinGin

We can be respectful of trans people in day to day life, supportive of their right to not be discriminated against, and still recognise that women and girls have different needs and rights based on our sex.

No one is exempt from safeguarding laws.

We should never put girls at risk to ‘be kind’ to any group.[/quote]
Exactly. What sort of fools (and i mean generally, not just GG or this case) didn't realise that perverts will use the trans movement for their own sick purposes?

@TedImgoingmad

I’ll add this too

www.transgendertrend.com/government-consultation-conversion-therapy-statement-transgender-trend/

It’s easy to cut and paste the answers. Needs done before the 10th. Emailing MP’s should be done immediately because it takes them time to get round to reading all emails.

Exactly. What sort of fools (and i mean generally, not just GG or this case) didn't realise that perverts will use the trans movement for their own sick purposes?

Unfortunately we have to abide by " acceptance without exception " " you are what you say you are"

However when something happens and someone does something dodgy, a select group of people are permitted to say they aren't really trans and therefore it doesn't count.

@Helleofabore - who is this top 100 lesbian?
Condoning DV and legalising extreme porn…
This person shaped the GG policies??
What’s their name? Was there any justification for this at the time?

[quote brighousepres]@Helleofabore - who is this top 100 lesbian?
Condoning DV and legalising extreme porn…
This person shaped the GG policies??
What’s their name? Was there any justification for this at the time?[/quote]
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

I won't upload a copy of the tweet image. You can search for pictures of it if you want confirmation.

"Most murder is boring, pedestrian, even accidental stuff.

Somewhere between a third and a half result from too much alcohol. A high proportion are domestic violence gone wrong. A blow struck one time too many: an egg-shell skull."

26/3/2018

I read that as being female's fault for having 'egg-shell skull', not the male's fault for violence in the first place.

@EverNapping

YABU - go back to the Feminism boards, that's what it's for

Sigh, women shut the fuck up your making men look bad.

Again.