To ask you to see who girl guides support.

[RedCarpetRebellion]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/amp/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

A woman sacked for speaking up for girls safety was replaced by this person.

Girl guides are not safe for girls. AIBU?

@ElftonWednesday

I agree with the comments but I'm not going to take DD out of Guides for this. I feel like it would be punishing her leaders who I'm sure don't agree with this nonsense either, they have been doing it for 20+ years.

It is probably worth emailing GG (copying in the leaders of your group) to raise your concerns about this issue and their policies/direction of travel and so that your local leaders know that you have this view (too many leaders have left the organisation because of their concerns but also because they are concerned but worried that if they speak out/raise concerns they will be lynched for being transphobic.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus - YES I also thought feminist was a more apt term… Shouldna just copied Wikipedia.

So the ‘critic’ link was a great summary, thank you.

@Mummyoflittledragon - thank you for clarifying that Aimee Challenor was born a man. I’m so bloody incensed by an organisation like the Guides treating girls like they’re less than - I’m not summarising very clearly, sorry.

@TheOriginalEmu
it’s NOT just a suspect individual though is it - that’s the whole point! It’s the Girl Guiding Association attitude and policies as their jaw dropping treatment and expelling of Helen Watts & Katie Alcock when they dated to suggest that by deviating from single sex safeguarding = zero safeguarding from girls with penises at your local guide camp. In fact - they’ll be given condoms from age 13 …

We don't have official statutory rape in law but any sex with a child below 13 is classed as rape. Sex (if consensual) with a child between 13 and 16 is a criminal offence, but not automatically classed as rape. And this extends to 18 if there is an imbalance of power, such as teacher and student, or there is exploitation.

@Magicpaintbrush actually, they can give condoms to your 13 year old DD. And maybe show her how to use it?

And don’t worry, if it breaks, guidelines also tells them to take your DD13 for STD check and the morning after pill. But they won’t tell you unless your DD agrees.

I am so angry that I cannot speak.

I have read the guidelines over and over and also googled this. The female leaders talking about safeguarding were fired. And the gun fanatic dominatrix hired instead. In a senior leadership position.

@stingofthebutterfly

I don't agree with the appointment and don't believe that trans women should be allowed to join the organisation, but to say the girls are not safe because they've come into contact with someone who has/had a penis is a huge leap. Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

I can only repeat, as often as needed, that the fact that such pictures existed to be found shows a lack of safeguarding.

Of kids without their identities obscured
In GG uniform
With a range of firearms
As a dominatrix
Barely dressed
With comments about possibly seeing more

Most, if not all of those, would have had me heavily censured at work, as a teacher. My free time pursuits were relevant to my day job. As are those of many others. That has been the case snce way before social media became a thing.

Safeguarding protects agains the unlikely. That's why Scouts are now a mixed sex organisation and have done al safeguarding, made it all available, advertise themselves as such.

Girl guides remain single sex and so have not done any of that.

A penis is not a female appendage. Girls deserve a space free of them, especially if that space advertises itself a single sex.

Or do you think the wants of a man should override that basic premise?

@WholeClassKeptIn

Well yes if "girls with penises" are sharing tents/accomodation with "girls with vaginas" as per policy if being treated the same what do you think might happen?

It's a rather logical outworking. Really "girls with penises" shouldn't be sharing accomodation/tents with "girls with vaginas. " Girls with vaginas should be able to have their own safe space where they meet and camp etc eithout risk of pregnancy fromb"girls with penises.".

GG realky needs to be for "girls with vaginas" as if "girls with penises" are allowed everywhere "girls with vagjnas" are then yes condoms etc will need to be available. As will rape counselling etc.

There's a reason that for most of history "people with penises" had separate facilities to "people with vaginas. "

(If only there was a word for "people with vaginas" that acted as a shorthand and could help keep girls safe in situations like this. Language is so important.)

I agree with all of this.

GG Leaders aren't allowed to voice a 'transphobic' opinion which may be against the current policies as they will be thrown out of the movement. I can assure you many leaders disagree with recent changes, we don't leave because we are providing an important service for girls in our local communities and love what we do.

When it lands on my doorstep, in our unit, I will have no choice but to leave.

As for condoms, teenagers are full of hormones and I would much rather them have access to them than not (no matter who they get them from), especially when GG camps could technically have hormonal teenage penis' on site now as a result of current policies.

[quote PumpkinGin]**@Cryingbutstilltrying but how do we know that our guide leaders think like you? I am desperately worried for my niece now and to be honest, I don’t think I can trust GG.

I read the sex guidelines. Apparently there can be girls with penises at sleepovers. Condoms are handed out to over 13s. And if a girl under 16 has unprotected sex, a leader can take her for STD check and the morning after pill.

But I may not find out that my 13 year old has been abused (because this is likely to be abuse if the penis person is older). Because according to the guidelines they can only encourage the girls to tell their parents.

And here are articles about female girl guide leaders being sacked for safe guarding concerns. How can I trust this organisation?[/quote]
This ^^

There will be teachers in schools who don’t care about safeguarding, who are predators themselves (the minority I’m sure) but schools have policies to safeguard children and these policies get enforced where needed.

Girl guides could have 99% of leaders who feel like @Cryingbutstilltrying but their policies support and enable the 1% who don’t. And that has devastating consequences.

The institution of GG chose to implement anti girls and anti safeguarding policies.

That should be all any parent needs to know.

And all parents or carers need to know about this.

Of kids without their identities obscured
In GG uniform

If this transwoman’s Twitter feed included posted pics of my DD with her face visible as well as pics of them dressed as a dominatrix of worry that my daughter was being used as a prop for her fetish.

How interesting that what a man who claims to be a woman does in their free time is irrelevant even when it is a major safeguarding red flag.

But a woman who holds the belief that a person cannot change sex is anti trans and must be hounded out of her job or threatened in her home.

Double standards.

Sex education is already happening in schools, so why GG feel the need to get involved in this side of things at all is beyond me. I think when most parents sign their girls up to GG they envision a wholesome and nurturing space where girls can make friends, be creative and learn skills, run by women who can be trusted to keep their daughters safe. Wholesome is the furthest thing from what I have been reading about GG this week, they have absolutely lost their way. They are so busy virtue signalling and making sure the world knows how woke and inclusive they are that they are compromising the safety of the girls in their care and throwing under the bus those leaders who have dared to object or highlight these issues by kicking them out of the organisation - the very people who, it seems to me, care the most about the safety and well being of these children. It feels like children are being subjected to an endless deluge of talk about sex, whether it's the act of sex or the nature of a person's sexual orientation, like there is literally nothing else worth discussing in life, as though it's the only thing of importance, shoving it down their throats constantly. Kids are all talking about this stuff on a daily basis now because it's all they are bloody well being exposed to. There is no balance any more. Sex is a part of life, but it's not the only thing in life - but somehow at the moment it really feels like the opposite is true. And it's all very handy for sexual predators that confused and impressionable kids across the country are being prepped like this.

*I’d, not of

@WholeClassKeptIn

Brighthouse - but isn't that why we keep men away from girls in general /separate accomodation/toilets etc.

I don't think any of the men I know would abuse. But some do and it is safer to have some same sex spaces/let different sexes sleep separately etc.

A girls only organisation doesn't mean we think all men are dangerous. Similarly excluding male bodies isn't to say all male bodies are dangerous.

Agree again.

And the risk of my daughters having sex on a girl guide sleepover is something I hadn’t even considered. It is only girls.

You do know girls can have sex with each other, right? It's the risk of pregnancy and rape that is the main issue, plus sex with penises, tbf.

I'm trying to take a balanced view here, but it's very difficult to see this as anything other than a safeguarding issue.

I was a girl guide for many years and I enjoyed it very much. But it does require absolute trust from parents. You are allowing girl guide leaders access to your children, in privacy, often overnight and without other people around.

Some of our activities included going to a guide leaders house, going in a guide leaders car and sharing sleeping space with guide leaders.

Would I be totally comfortable with my daughter doing these things with this person? No. I would probably remove them from the GG unit altogether.

I don't feel as though I'm being transphobic (although trans people would certainly disagree) I'm just thinking "better safe than sorry". I can't believe I find myself saying these things. I have never identified as a person that is "against" the trans movement, but somewhere along the way, a line has been drawn in my mind.

I believe that allowing MTF trans people to join the girl guiding unit and take young girls on camping trips etc does put young girls at unnecessary risk.

And, although I find the posting of sex stuff on Instagram a bit weird and unprofessional, I'm not leaping to conclusions that they are a pervert because they like BDSM. That would obviously be reductive.

@stingofthebutterfly

I don't agree with the appointment and don't believe that trans women should be allowed to join the organisation, but to say the girls are not safe because they've come into contact with someone who has/had a penis is a huge leap. Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

They post it on a public platform for those 13+

Private lives should be kept private.

If a teacher did this there would be hell to pay.

It also breaches the GG social media policy. And every rule of good safeguarding practice. It shows very poor boundaries, or an entire disregard of boundaries.

That should say "the risk of sex with penises, pregnancy and rape that is the main issue".

@lifeturnsonadime

How interesting that what a man who claims to be a woman does in their free time is irrelevant even when it is a major safeguarding red flag.

But a woman who holds the belief that a person cannot change sex is anti trans and must be hounded out of her job or threatened in her home.

Double standards.

This Well said

As for condoms, teenagers are full of hormones and I would much rather them have access to them than not (no matter who they get them from), especially when GG camps could technically have hormonal teenage penis' on site now as a result of current policies.

This should never ever have had to be GG policy.
Girls do not have penises.

Girls deserve single sex spaces.

I don’t think Helen Watts or Katie Alcock said they were anti trans.

They were merely and very sensibly suggesting that girls be kept safe by ensuring girls with penises aren’t given condoms to let them have sex with your daughter on Guide camp.

I think there is a huge danger of conflating safeguarding girls with being somehow anti trans people.

Girls deserve single sex spaces. Yep that’s it in a nutshell @lifeturnsonadime

I’d just like to add the fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/ pronouns are like rohypnol link. That means we read she and automatically think that person is most likely weaker and safe. Unfortunately we have fallen under this spell. I have to check myself too.

@brighousepres I get it. Fast moving thread plus frustration… just wanted to erase the rohypnol.

This is disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful.

Who, in a position where you work with children, would think it appropriate to post provocative images of themselves on SM?

A transwoman running a children's activity isn't a problem. What is a problem is her dressing as a dominatrix and toting a rifle, not to mention the other photos.

I suppose the fact that this has all been brought to light is a the smallest of small positives, but in reality it shows how lax the background checks are on those wishing to volunteer into positions of trust with Girlguiding.

@Genderless

The risk of rape needs emphasised again.

99%+ of all sexual assault is committed by males. Only 0.9% by females.

Yes in theory girls might be having sex on camps, but the likelihood of any girl or woman sexually assaulting posters dds is very very low. Add in males and that’s a very real risk. Especially when the risk assessment won’t have taken into account their maleness or safeguarded against the risk that indicates.