To ask you to see who girl guides support.

[RedCarpetRebellion]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/amp/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

A woman sacked for speaking up for girls safety was replaced by this person.

Girl guides are not safe for girls. AIBU?

www.womenarehuman.com/a-mother-fighting-for-girls-safety-takes-on-army-of-girlguiding-lawyers/

Some media links.

My apologies all, including MNHQ. I didn't realise CrowdJustice wasn't allowed. I didn't post because it was a fundraiser, I posted because it was a full account of Katie Alcock's story in her own words.

You can find it by Googling her name.

Thanks for confirming it @MichaelMumsnet

@Insidelaurashead

My best friend had a baby at 13. Most of my friends were having sex at that age. I wish guides had given out condoms

This. I don't understand the shock horror at teenagers being told and prepared for sex. Such archaic ideas around it it seems

Thank you Michael.

Good to know that it’s a crowdfunded link and not due to other reasons!

This. I don't understand the shock horror at teenagers being told and prepared for sex. Such archaic ideas around it it seems

Read on. Condoms given out on single sex camps?

It's the odd juxtapositon, as in the mission statement.

This whole situation makes me so desperately sad. I am firmly GC and resent the notion that people who like certain things must therefore be ‘women’ or ‘men’. They can’t be what I knew as a ‘tomboy’ or indeed, someone who prefers crafting or football or whatever.
I am also a Brownie leader and believe strongly that girls should be given a voice and allowed to grow in their own space. I will protect my girls with every part of my being. It absolutely breaks my heart to read the comments - which I fully understand - saying that parents will actively choose to avoid Guiding. I can only say that the women I work alongside and within the wider area locally are amazing, dedicated and absolutely safeguarding is our first priority. We’re also busy parents and grandparents in most cases, and don’t have time for the posturing that seems to go on higher up the organisation. I think this is probably the case in many areas tbh.
I don’t really know what I’m trying to say but please know that the vast majority of unit leaders are as appalled as you all are, and just want to have a fun and safe environment for the girls without the nonsense that seems to be passed down from above.

@Cryingbutstilltrying

This whole situation makes me so desperately sad. I am firmly GC and resent the notion that people who like certain things must therefore be ‘women’ or ‘men’. They can’t be what I knew as a ‘tomboy’ or indeed, someone who prefers crafting or football or whatever. I am also a Brownie leader and believe strongly that girls should be given a voice and allowed to grow in their own space. I will protect my girls with every part of my being. It absolutely breaks my heart to read the comments - which I fully understand - saying that parents will actively choose to avoid Guiding. I can only say that the women I work alongside and within the wider area locally are amazing, dedicated and absolutely safeguarding is our first priority. We’re also busy parents and grandparents in most cases, and don’t have time for the posturing that seems to go on higher up the organisation. I think this is probably the case in many areas tbh. I don’t really know what I’m trying to say but please know that the vast majority of unit leaders are as appalled as you all are, and just want to have a fun and safe environment for the girls without the nonsense that seems to be passed down from above.

Thank you.

That this person is trans is not the issue. The issue is suspect behaviour.

I was thinking of sending my daughter to guides when she turned 5. But reading this I'm glad I didn't.

@Cryingbutstilltrying but how do we know that our guide leaders think like you? I am desperately worried for my niece now and to be honest, I don’t think I can trust GG.

I read the sex guidelines. Apparently there can be girls with penises at sleepovers. Condoms are handed out to over 13s. And if a girl under 16 has unprotected sex, a leader can take her for STD check and the morning after pill.

But I may not find out that my 13 year old has been abused (because this is likely to be abuse if the penis person is older). Because according to the guidelines they can only encourage the girls to tell their parents.

And here are articles about female girl guide leaders being sacked for safe guarding concerns. How can I trust this organisation?

@brighousepres

For anyone else woefully behind like me - here are what some of the terms / people keep referring to actually mean…

autogynophilia - sexually turned on by fantasies of being a woman

GRC - gender recognition certificate

Aimee Challenor - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Challenor

(This woman recruited family - ie VERY close connections (!) ie her known paedophile father to be her managing agent at the Green Party and husband expressed disgusting sexual fantasies of children on Twitter.)

Graham Linehan - anti trans activist who argues that transgender activism endangers women, and he has likened the use of puberty blockers to Nazi eugenics programmes. (Wikipedia)

To add, Aimee Challenor was born male. AC identifies as a woman. AC does not hold a GRC. AC has not had surgery to remove the penis / testicles. AC is autistic and many think exploited.

It is very confusing for people, who don’t know who this person is to refer to them as she. It will be presumed this person is of the female sex, which is totally untrue. So I hope this clarifies.

To be fair I think the point is that any man, trans or not, seeking to join any single sex space, should be asked questions of. Joining 'as a woman' just adds to the issues raised.

In short, joining GG is in and of itself a suspect behaviour.

This has, until recently, been seen as a kneejerk and unfair reaction - transphobic by definition. But now there are more people willing to ask questions, to point out the 'discrepencies'.

We really can't keep on simply accepting...

thecritic.co.uk/jeepers-creepers/

@Cryingbutstilltrying

This whole situation makes me so desperately sad. I am firmly GC and resent the notion that people who like certain things must therefore be ‘women’ or ‘men’. They can’t be what I knew as a ‘tomboy’ or indeed, someone who prefers crafting or football or whatever. I am also a Brownie leader and believe strongly that girls should be given a voice and allowed to grow in their own space. I will protect my girls with every part of my being. It absolutely breaks my heart to read the comments - which I fully understand - saying that parents will actively choose to avoid Guiding. I can only say that the women I work alongside and within the wider area locally are amazing, dedicated and absolutely safeguarding is our first priority. We’re also busy parents and grandparents in most cases, and don’t have time for the posturing that seems to go on higher up the organisation. I think this is probably the case in many areas tbh. I don’t really know what I’m trying to say but please know that the vast majority of unit leaders are as appalled as you all are, and just want to have a fun and safe environment for the girls without the nonsense that seems to be passed down from above.

Thank you and to reassure you I trust my daughters leaders 100% I know she is safe with them. I don't trust the wider guiding community so will be selective about events I send her to but her actual leaders I could not fault in any way, they have been fantastic.

Graham Linehan - anti trans activist who argues that transgender activism endangers women, and he has likened the use of puberty blockers to Nazi eugenics programmes. (Wikipedia)

To be fair I think he'd describe himself as a feminist or feminist ally. The anti trans thing has been forced upon him by some quite spectacular actions against him. He has lost so much for speaking up - his marriage included.

[quote PumpkinGin]@Cryingbutstilltrying but how do we know that our guide leaders think like you? I am desperately worried for my niece now and to be honest, I don’t think I can trust GG.

I read the sex guidelines. Apparently there can be girls with penises at sleepovers. Condoms are handed out to over 13s. And if a girl under 16 has unprotected sex, a leader can take her for STD check and the morning after pill.

But I may not find out that my 13 year old has been abused (because this is likely to be abuse if the penis person is older). Because according to the guidelines they can only encourage the girls to tell their parents.

And here are articles about female girl guide leaders being sacked for safe guarding concerns. How can I trust this organisation?[/quote]
Disturbing as hell

I don't agree with the appointment and don't believe that trans women should be allowed to join the organisation, but to say the girls are not safe because they've come into contact with someone who has/had a penis is a huge leap. Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

@YouSetTheTone

This is what the trans rights ideology ‘be kind’ means. It means girls and women are not allowed safeguarding or boundaries or single sex places. Why have GG not been able to say ‘we are not transphobic, we welcome girls who identify as boys, but we are a single sex organisation. Gender identity does not trump biological sex in this particular group. Girls are allowed exclusively female groups to provide them some freedom away from the opposite sex’. It’s really not that hard to say, and it’s empowering to show girls that they’re ENTITLED to it. There’s nothing wrong with it. Give them some inkling of respect in their own sex, their own rights and their own activities.

It would also be entirely legal of GG to take that stance. It’s sad that they didn’t.

This.

There are activists in and on behalf of a particular demographic (not all the demographic I must add, some of them are probably horrified at this) that as far as I can tell only goal seems to be removing any single sex spaces for women and girls. Any sex based language or biological function linked to the word 'woman' removed. They threaten 'transphobia' and a long with 'guidance' from a particular lobby group, organisations bend to their will. You've got the leader of the Lib Dems on tv saying there shouldn't be anywhere a female can go without a male fgs.

It's alright for the head of that lobby group to go on womens hour saying there's refuges that employ single sex exemptions so what's the fuss, but then we see those refuges losing funding for not being 'inclusive'

On FWR right now there's a woman kicked out of a make up group on facebook because she politely requested that while the new member's make up was lovely, she'd rather not see them posing in bed in their underwear. One cry of 'transphobia!' and she was out.

Like Helen Watts and Katie Alcock. Booted from girlguiding because they raised concerns for the single sex spaces of girls. And then GG employed this individual.

And now it's bitten them on the arse. Good. They could have stood up for girls, they didn't, and now they face the consequences. It's the girls I feel for in all of this though.

I agree with the comments but I'm not going to take DD out of Guides for this. I feel like it would be punishing her leaders who I'm sure don't agree with this nonsense either, they have been doing it for 20+ years.

@stingofthebutterfly

I don't agree with the appointment and don't believe that trans women should be allowed to join the organisation, but to say the girls are not safe because they've come into contact with someone who has/had a penis is a huge leap. Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

I've said this in another thread about the matter, but if a female guide leader had posted guns and boobs 'do you want to see more' shots, very publicly, all over the internet - make no mistake she'd be flying out of the door.

Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person.

Risk assessments done on this person will be completed as if they are a female, not a male. Because trans women are women.

So the higher risk factors that are accounted for in risk assessing a male, are not accounted for here.

That is the point that Katie and Helen were trying to make and they got booted out for it.

You cannot presume anything once you subscribe to the ideology. Because people are what they say they are and nobody is allowed to question it.

@stingofthebutterfly

I don't agree with the appointment and don't believe that trans women should be allowed to join the organisation, but to say the girls are not safe because they've come into contact with someone who has/had a penis is a huge leap. Presumably all safeguarding checks have been done on this person. What they choose to do in their own time is fairly irrelevant.

Do you really think if a woman guide leader had posted all of that stuff on their social media that GG would have been fine with it?

Of course they wouldn't. It would be a clear breach of the social media policy and would set up all sorts of red flags.

"it is an absolute offence to have sex with a girl under 13" - what on earth? Just what??? The age of sexual consent in the UK is 16, unless I've been living on another planet??? So GG are happy to hand out condoms to 14 year old children.... has the world gone insane? Am I wrong in understanding that sex with a CHILD below the age of 16 is statutory rape?? And that if a child below that age is approaching a GG unit leader for condoms then actually the first thing that should be flagged up is safe guarding them? WTF is going on?