Do you ever privately judge people for bringing a baby into bad circumstances?

[Boilthekettleplease]

I've wondered how other people feel about this.

I'm coming to terms with not having a child of my own, because ultimately it would be putting my own needs ahead of any child to risk trying to have one. There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure.

I'm curious if people would judge me for (hypothetically) trying to be a mum in a situation like this? Or do most people feel that the drive for a child is so strong they understand why people try against all the odds?

Do you ever judge people for having a child in situations where there are predictable risks or downsides?

No. I know how easy it can be for a woman to get pregnant and don't believe abortion should be praised as the answer or anyone should ever be forced to have one.

Life is varied and can be short or long. It can still be good and people can be great parents.

@Winniemarysarah

I’m so sorry for your situation op, but I would judge you for deliberately attempting a pregnancy that’s likely to end in total disaster. I don’t think anyone who has lost a parent at a young age would willingly put their own child through such horrific trauma. Without knowing your circumstances, is surrogacy/adoption something you could consider

Yes, I think because I lost a parent at a relatively young age myself that is why I'd never do it. I was a young adult so not a child but it was a horrendous period in my life.

Maybe others who do go ahead, don't have that perspective?

I don't agree with surrogacy on ethical grounds. I think down the line fostering a child with disability is something I'd really like to do, if I can

No. Circumstances change, rapidly sometimes.

We planned our youngest child, at the time earning a 6 figure salary between us. Fell pregnant February 2020 ... lost 80% of our income by April 2020... lost our home May 2020 and moved into a much smaller house, during a lockdown causing us both huge depression.

So no, no judgement.

I wouldn’t judge you in your situation. Doctors are not gods, they can say there is risk of this or that, but there is also hope and chance it would not be a medical disaster.

Even low risk pregnancies can end in disaster. I just read heartbreaking story about two perfectly healthy mums who died of herpes infection they’d caught during their c-sections which caused both of them to die only days after giving birth. Their children are motherless. No one could have predicted that.

Every pregnancy is a roll of the dice. So I would never judge any woman who went ahead with one so long as she is informed and eyes open about her risk profile and chances. It’s her choice.

Yes I do - many people have kids without thinking about the implications and are quite happy to bring kids into bad situations. I don't mean like the ones you report (sorry, btw, it sounds like you are in a horrible situation and had to make really hard choices). The thing that has always made me furious is the number of people who complain about co parenting with an ex but then tell you they knew they were making a mistake at or before the wedding. And yet still had kids. Utterly stupid and selfish. I don't think it is just biological drive, I think people also often want a mini me without thinking about what life will be like for that child.

Yes. Of course you cannot predict the future. But you do know the present. So yes, I do think people should think more before bringing a child into a situation that would not be in their best interests to do. This doesnt include people who have no control over it. And I appreciate what is in a child's best interests is subjective to an extent. I dont feel that not being well off, for example, is not in a child's best interests if they'd be well cared for and loved. If not being well off means absolute poverty can't afford to eat, no that isn't in best interests. I guess think about what your own view is and if you would objectively want to bring a child into that situation/be a child in that situation and that probably gives you your answer. That's how I made a judgement about it for my own children.

I wouldn’t judge them as such but in some circumstances, like the family I grew up in, I do think ‘why?’ Very chaotic family, loads of kids, absolutely awful to grow up in. Many of the siblings now adults with similar problems eg addiction/abuse.

But then I had my first two as a young girl and many would judge for that. But I think I’ve got by okay, so I’m not sure.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I would judge the person based on their circumstances and what type of person they were, rather than just the fact that they’ve had a baby in a situation I maybe don’t think is ideal.

I am sorry you find yourself in this position op it is very difficult to let go of your dream to have a baby. You are doing the right thing and putting your potential babies ahead of you. That is what a good mum would do.

It's interesting isn't it.

I must admit it absolutely pisses me off if someone says "oh It's selfish to not have kids" when they haven't a clue about anyone's situation - and ironically you are beating yourself up privately at how selfish you feel if you were to try to have them.

No. I don't see things as black and white.
There are many situations that can put someone in a horrible position.
I also know families who don't have much in terms of finances but they've a lovely caring unit even if they go short on basics and would be viewed by others as hopelessly poor, or don't have a father.
They pull together and love each other.
I genuinely believe if the DC are loved and encouraged they'll be okay.

Yeah I do judge people , I know a woman who has 7 kids, she doesn’t look after the kids she’s got and has just announced she’s pregnant with number 8. I would not judge someone badly in your situation though, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer you just have to do what you feel is best x

Do you have kidney disease? If you do, you should discuss family planning with your nephrologist (if you haven’t already), as your condition may not necessarily mean it’s unsafe to have children.

I agree with this, I safely carried my daughter with CDK3, though I did have it under control for years before that with good diet, cranberry etc. I was fit & active back then, but pregnancy & Labour threw up 2 more undiagnosed & unrelated medical conditions which largely disabled me.

That could have happened whether I had CKD or not, but regardless of that I've coped. Life is different to what it would have been juggling full on career & small child, but she's 19 now, she can give me hell as they do at this age, but she's a lovely human being, so I seem to have done okay despite what life through at me

If you're happy not trying of course, that's a valid choice too, but if you're not sure & you think that you can't, so have written off trying, it's worth talking to your doctors etc & maybe a good nutritionalist if your diet isn't great

Threw at me 🥴

I think down the line fostering a child with disability is something I'd really like to do, if I can smile
I've no doubt you'll do a great job and make a big difference.
I'm truly sorry for your struggles.

I'll be honest, yes, in some circumstances. I know it's none of my business, nor should my opinions have any weight on the decisions of others - but do I think some people have children selfishly, or without really thinking about it, and that that's cruel? Yes.

My cousin and his girlfriend - 2 under 2, not a job between them (no reason for this - he quit his job "to help her care for the kids" and now spends all day playing Call of Duty). Ongoing social services involvement due to concerns about neglect, cousin's girlfriend now blaming severe (and never before mentioned, miraculous disappearing-when-social-services-aren't-there symptoms) mental illness for said neglect. She's pregnant again and expects us all to be thrilled for them. I absolutely judge them.

An ex-colleague, who had a fourth child because she wanted a girl. Had another boy. Announced her intention to try again. I judged that, too.

I know it's not my business, like I said. But it doesn't mean I don't have an opinion, even if I know that opinion isnt worth anything to anyone else, and I know it's judgemental of me. I understand, too, that not everyone has a child in less-than-ideal circumstances because they're selfish or cruel, but because on balance they think they can still be good, loving, present parents. I just think that some people don't even think that, and just do it anyway. I think the fact you've even thought about it means you're not one of the people I'd (again, absolutely without any right to) judge.

I'm very sorry that having biological children isn't something that's on the cards for you. 💐

I’ve worried more than judged for my relative’s family whose older dc are doing a large share of work looking after their many younger siblings - I don’t judge large families per se for this as my own MIL was so hands on and devoted to her also numerous DC that she carried most of it and was amazing and brought them up in such love and beautifully .

I totally hear the poster who is fed up of people feeling crammed in their own living conditions when it’s of their own making ! I feel strongly we are responsible for our own families and social support is there for unexpected events and those who really need it .

Inwardly, yes. I'm certainly not proud of it and I'm sure others have judged me too.
I judge anyone who knows they will not be able to meet a child's needs but still go onto purposely have one. I wasn't as judgy until I came into contact with child carers, many of whom their parents knew that they would rely on future young children to help them with basic care. They have to miss school, sacrifice friendships, socialising, education to care for their parents, who knew that would be the case.
I knew of a woman who had a heart condition and was told she could never get pregnant. Her and her husband decided to take the risk, and she died when the baby was very young (under a year). He got with a new partner a year later and went on to remarry, and the step mum treated him like her own, so his life was largely unaffected. Because of that I don't judge his bio mum, just feel very sorry that she missed out on his life.

I try not to judge in most situations, because things change and because sometimes the difficulties that make it hard to raise kids also make it hard to look ahead.

However, if your consultants really are clear on the dangers you describe then I'd absolutely judge you and pity your child if predictably goes wrong. The situation is so unfair to you, but even more unfair to them. Surrogacy is a morally complex area but works for some, or there are other ways to make a meaningful contribution to the life of a child or children, from 'big sister' mentoring programs to fostering to fundraising.

@Cookiejarmonster

Yes I do.

Bringing babies into grown adult mess i can't get behind.

By that I mean living in poverty with a crap unsupportive partner and no support but being pregnant with baby number 2 despite things being shit with baby number 1.

Totally sucks for the kids.

Agree

I do judge, unfortunately! But that's because I work in a field where I see the utter devastation it can cause. So my view is completely skewed.

There seem to be rather a lot of people these days who are all too ready and willing to judge others.

When I was a child, I was taught not to be judgemental towards other people, and my parents were very fond of the saying 'There, but for the grace of God, go I".

No, but honestly, if you mind being judged, motherhood is not for you anyway. There are hoardes of people whose main business in life seems to be judging mothers on a variety of factors.

Having been a child who was suddenly thrust into a life of poverty when Dad walked out on Mum, yes I do judge people who have children that they knowingly can't afford to raise well. I remember coming home from school, being hungry and looking into empty cupboards/fridge and knowing tomorrow would be the same. Not being able to turn the heating on because we knew Mum would stress about the bill even though the house was freezing. Not being able to meet your school mates in town at the weekend because you can't bear to ask Mum for the bus fare let alone money to eat/drink or shop like your friends did. Turning down party invites because you've got nothing to wear let alone be able to give someone a gift. Not being able to go on any school trips and you bin the letters without even taking them home as you don't want to stress Mum out.

Kids don't just need love, they need food, warmth, clothing and to be able to live alongside their peers without every single day feeling that they're the odd one out.

Yes I'm afraid I do judge, especially when it's the 4th or 5th child (well I'd be judging them anyway ). I know of a few families where a diagnosus of a very serious life limiting or debilitating illness came when they already had 2 or 3 children but where they then proceeded to have more. That is not fair at all on ANY of the children, is selfish and may well end up also costing the state money in time.

Sorry to hear about what you are going through OP. You are showing what an amazing mother you would be by making this sacrifice to avoid bringing children into a world where you might not be around to protect them. I hope you go ahead with fostering in the future- I’m sure you would be an incredible foster parent