Do you ever privately judge people for bringing a baby into bad circumstances?

[Boilthekettleplease]

I've wondered how other people feel about this.

I'm coming to terms with not having a child of my own, because ultimately it would be putting my own needs ahead of any child to risk trying to have one. There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure.

I'm curious if people would judge me for (hypothetically) trying to be a mum in a situation like this? Or do most people feel that the drive for a child is so strong they understand why people try against all the odds?

Do you ever judge people for having a child in situations where there are predictable risks or downsides?

I judged my sibling and spouse when they decided to try for a 3rd child despite not being mentally well enough to parent the kids they already had. They felt they had never gotten to enjoy the early years due to their MH issues so they wanted a Take 2 - except their illnesses are exacerbated by stress and sleep deprivation and it would have just been a disaster. They were devastated by a late pregnancy loss but inside I really felt it was for the best. / breathed a sigh of relief. Thankfully they found that experience too painful to try again.

@CheeseMmmm

No of course not.

Op you haven't as far as I can see what you consider to be 'bad circumstances'.

That would really help rather than posters assuming all sorts of different things and so the conversation will involve pretty much everyone talking about different things.

Not really sure what you mean? From my OP:

There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure

Those circumstances are potentially very bad indeed, from the point of view of the child's wellbeing.

But yes, there are other kinds of bad circumstances too of course.

I don't know how I'd feel about specific people... It would depend on all their circumstances, but taken on the whole, I do think it's better not to have children if there's a high, predictable chance that they'll be left without a living parent before they're adults, themselves.

I also think it's morally wrong to have children if the parents don't have the means to feed, clothe, and house them. That's not saying that only the wealthy should have children, just that we should be able to cover the bare minimum of caring for our children ourselves. It's different, of course, if circumstances change after a child has already been conceived, but I do think it's selfish and wrong to have children knowing they'll be supported and paid for by 'society' because you can't or won't do it yourself.

Some people don't realise at that moment thatvtgey are in less than desirable circumstances. I do often question why people have more children when they were struggling with the ines they have or the number if children exceeds the practical space in their house (when the house has come first so they know how much space is available)
I worked in housing, people would move into a two bed house with two children (fine) and then come back to the council at the fourth or fifth expecting a priority score because they are overcrowded and need to be re-housed.

It’s not something that should be denied to anyone because of economic circumstances.

How does that make sense in practical terms?
Someone wants ten kids but can’t afford to even house, clothe, feed, practically or emotionally support one kid. Their want to have ten (let alone one) must be ensured as they are entitled to this. Let’s be honest, it’s actually happening at present but the issue is everyone all round says it’s not working- the people with kids they can’t afford are saying they are hard done by as everyone else is not supporting their kids well enough and they have no obligation to do so (because as you have pointed out they should not be denied this), and the people who are stumping up to support the kids believe their obligation for total support is not right.

Apologies OP. What other situations though?

I think loads of posters have missed that as plenty posts about poverty etc.

I am sorry you are so ill.

Reading that now I immediately thought of a friend I knew from school who was found to have very aggressive breast cancer while Pg.

She could be treated which would have meant an abortion, or not be treated have the baby knowing she wouldn't live much longer.

She and her OH chose the second option.

I don't judge her for that.

@Boilthekettleplease

No, but honestly, if you mind being judged, motherhood is not for you anyway. There are hoardes of people whose main business in life seems to be judging mothers on a variety of factors.

I know this is just a throwaway comment, and not nasty etc, but I don't think this is a tactful thing to say to anyone who is trying to come to terms with not being able to have a child.

It's not like it made me feel oh, phew - that's a good job I can't have one then, because I'd just be judged all the time for all my parenting choices. Advising me "that it wouldn't be for me anyway" stings a bit. It actually seems a bit dismissive of the tremendous hurt this is causing me.

I understand the point you are making and I agree that mothers are harshly judged for every decision it seems at times, but respectfully I don't think this thread is the place to make it.

I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it that way, but you're right, I could have made the point more thoughtfully.

I think I got sidetracked by your question about being judged when actually it's about your own choice.

I live overseas and I’m currently taking full-time language lessons provided by the government for immigrants like myself. There are a lot of people at my school from much poorer countries than the UK. Many of them have come here with no skills, qualifications or job prospects. Often they don’t even have work permits. Some have brought their children; others have had then since arriving. It always amazes me when they say they are planning to have more children soon. I can’t imagine actively TTC when your situation is so precarious, when you have no job and no money, when you are dependent on financial aid from the governmment and can barely support yourself. I don’t think I “judge” them, per se, I just know I would never even consider doing that.

But if you’re talking about people who get pregnant by accident and decide to continue the pregnancy despite unfavourable circumstances, no, I don’t judge them at all.

What I meant to say was don't worry about bein judged (you will be whatever you do) and that all of us decide to have kids in uncertain circumstances. Nobody knows the future and only you can judge for yourself.

In your particular case, well, I guess it would depend on how likely it is that something would happen to you to prevent you from taking care of the child after giving birth. If the risks are low, I would say go for it, since everything to do with having children carries a risk anyway.

@HarryHarryHarry3

In your particular case, well, I guess it would depend on how likely it is that something would happen to you to prevent you from taking care of the child after giving birth. If the risks are low, I would say go for it, since everything to do with having children carries a risk anyway.

Have you read the op? She has stated very clearly that she’s been told there would be a good chance she would become so unwell she couldn’t care for the baby, and would possibly even die a few years later.

Yes I have read the OP. I don’t know what a “good chance” means in this case as it means different things to different people. Eg a doctor told me once without even examining me that there was a “good chance” I would miscarry and I didn’t. My feeling about the OP’s decision to have a child or not depends on the actual likelihood of something happening. Without knowing anything about her condition I can’t say for sure. But why am I even bothering to explain that to you, random person on Mumsnet trying to start arguments for no reason? There’s always someone like you trying to pick holes in other people’s post to make yourself feel clever, it’s very tiresome and unhelpful.

A good chance generally means a good chance. As in, it’s quite likely. And for many even a slim chance of dying and not being able to care for your child is too much of a chance.

Everyone has a slim chance of dying though

@Doona

Everyone has a slim chance of dying though

But op doesn’t have a slim chance. That’s why it’s so unhelpful to say things like ‘oh just go for it op, anything bad could happen to any person.’

In op’s case it isn’t just possible, it’s quite likely. And she’s decided not to take that risk, so comments like ‘just go for it’ are unhelpful.

I had a colleague who had a perfectly healthy son then her cousin and her husbands cousin were diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. They had genetic counselling and discovered a 1/4 chance of cystic fibrosis as both were carriers. She decided to have another baby and thankfully he was also healthy, I personally wouldn't have had a second in those circumstances but not sure its really fair to judge her as I have 2 healthy kids.

Yes tbh. I do privately judge when I see a woman saying she has got pregnant by accident by a man she isn’t coupled up with and intends to keep the baby as it may be her last chance. And usually goes on to say (and be supported by some posters) she doesn’t want the father to play a significant role in the child’s life but will ask for cm

Pretty bad form to me to both cut the man out (but expect money) and to have the child know this is what you thought of the other parent. What kind of warped views will that child grow up having?

It depends on the circumstance, I wouldn't say it's black or white. but yes I would judge. Knowing there is a huge risk / bad situation is different from something maybe happening down the line. It's completely different if you have children and your circumstances change. But bringing children into an already bad situation is selfish and irresponsible.

i would not judge - i mean people going through difficult circumstances are going to be the most likely to forget or find it difficult to access contraception or act without thinking just to get some relief from their circumstances.

According to all government figures myself, my children and Grandchildren have all been born into difficult circumstances/poverty and yet we have had great lives - there is such a wide spectrum of circumstances that could be impacting on people it is so difficult to make any sweeping statement.

@Eastie77Returns.well said!

i judge those who have children taken away who continue to have children

@Okbye

Yes, I do.

I work in social housing and get shouted at pretty much every other day by mums who have 5/6/7 children in a 2/3 bedroom property demanding a bigger property ‘because my kids are all sharing a room and I’m pregnant again blah blah blah’.

It INFURIATES me that these people keep getting pregnant when they already haven’t got enough room and demanding 4, 5 and even 6 bed houses when (where I work) they’re like fucking gold dust, hence the long wait on the housing list. They seem to think the Councils/Housing Associations can just pull a property out of thin air for them 🤨🤬🙄

Same. And I think that anyone who claims they don't judge is lying. Or has zero experience of dealing with children who have had appalling starts to life - 5 kids in a 2 bed, back to back terrace, sharing dirty mattresses on the floor with no sheets, no carpets, where the free school meal is the only guaranteed food the kids get in a week.

A school friend of mine was bor with fetal alcohol syndrome and this has had quite an impact on him (plus the inevitable challenges of growing up in an alcoholic home), he judges his own parents harshly, as well as his wider family for not stepping in to support.

Yes.
But I also realise life happens.
I've heard that during war times, while bomes are actually falling, the birth rate goes up. Don't know if due to lack of contraception though.

Depends how bad!

It hurts me to see when people have multiple children removed as they're in dire circumstances, and still keep having kids year after year, as I know how hard it is to be in care for those children and what life will be like if you don't get lucky with a good/stable adoptive/foster placement.

@Kendodd

I actually don’t think it’s because of lack of contraceptives, I think it’s like a human instinct to have more kids in bad times. I bet if the climate crisis got worse you’d actually see more kids not less - it’s just now when it’s not affecting people you hear stuff labour how terrible it is to bring a child into this world etc.
It’s like we have a drive to bang out more kids so they can carry on to better times. Weird stuff.