Do you ever privately judge people for bringing a baby into bad circumstances?

[Boilthekettleplease]

I've wondered how other people feel about this.

I'm coming to terms with not having a child of my own, because ultimately it would be putting my own needs ahead of any child to risk trying to have one. There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure.

I'm curious if people would judge me for (hypothetically) trying to be a mum in a situation like this? Or do most people feel that the drive for a child is so strong they understand why people try against all the odds?

Do you ever judge people for having a child in situations where there are predictable risks or downsides?

I had my first 25 years ago. There were plenty of kids going hungry. Sure the welfare state was a bit better, but not by much. I lived on an estate that was full of children without adequate clothing or nutrition.

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

I had my first 25 years ago. There were plenty of kids going hungry. Sure the welfare state was a bit better, but not by much. I lived on an estate that was full of children without adequate clothing or nutrition.

Yes, you're right. There are many circumstances were it was inadequate even then. We were lucky and never had to get high interest loans or anything.

That said the point remains, it is a choice of the state.

Having kids is a biological and economic imperative not a choice akin to getting a horse or a sports car.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I chose to have kids and am financially fortunate now (not then!). In 21st Century in most of the western world having kids is a choice, nothing imperative about it. For me.

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I chose to have kids and am financially fortunate now (not then!). In 21st Century in most of the western world having kids is a choice, nothing imperative about it. For me.

Ask South Korea how well that view is going. Indeed ask your own children in 50 years.

Having kids is a biological and economic imperative not a choice akin to getting a horse or a sports car.

No it’s not like getting a horse or a car but it is still a conscious choice. We don’t reproduce on a purely instinctive level like other animals.

The economic imperative is becoming horrifyingly clear.

The biological imperative is pretty obvious too. Staying alive long enough to successfully pass on our DNA is literally our entire purpose, we would be utterly fucked as a species if we didn't have an incredibly strong drive to do this.

I feel very strongly that you should not have children unless you can care for them, meet their basic needs, in a good relationship, can feed, house and cloth them.
As someone who was brought into a shit relationship, my parents should never of had children. We were poor and it was rubbish. My mother didn't look after herself and is terminally ill, it's rubbish.

Yes I do.

Not situations that arise after they've had the children. But people who actively choose to bring a child into bad situations.

It seems some people give more thought on what they are having for dinner, than whether or not to have a baby.

@Keepitrealnomists

I feel very strongly that you should not have children unless you can care for them, meet their basic needs, in a good relationship, can feed, house and cloth them. As someone who was brought into a shit relationship, my parents should never of had children. We were poor and it was rubbish. My mother didn't look after herself and is terminally ill, it's rubbish.

I was born into awful circumstances. But I'm glad I was born. Do you wish you didn't exist? Many great people (both influential and not) were born into horrifying circumstances.

I doubt you’ll get a balanced answer to that on this forum.

Yes. I’m a human, and therefore, I make judgments on other humans 🤷🏻‍♀️

Bringing children into a world of poverty is unforgivable. For those who say children are not just for the rich, this is true, but if you are dirt poor, your child will v likely have a stressful and miserable childhood which will v likely have a negative impact on their adulthood.

I v much believe that if you cannot afford to put enough food on the table, pay rent and warm a home, properly clothe a child, afford all its needs, including new school shoes as and when the child requires them, books, toys, etc etc then you are not in a position to have children.

If I am honest, I do feel I judge people that get pregnant with new partners or when the family unit isn't solid. (Planned, I understand accidental pregnancies happen)

I don't judge anyone who have difficult decisions regarding medical issues and risks. I think each situation is different and as long as the parents have all the information they need, they should be able to make their own decision that will effect them/their children.

Sorry you have found yourself in this situation xx

Yes I do sorry.
I have a friend that has significant disabilities and decided to go ahead and have a child.
That child is now bullied because children are cruel, she's on her second school, doesn't get to do the activities other kids do because of her home life, has caring responsibilities etc.
It's not fair
She's loved, but that isn't always enough.

@Missmaya

I wouldn't. I wouldn't judge anyone for having or not having a child. Who am I to say who should and shouldn't be having children.

I especially hate when people say you shouldn't have children you can't afford. Having children shouldn't be just for the well off.

My mum always used to say that if you didn’t have children because you couldn’t afford them then you would never have children. OP: The decision to have children is yours and yours alone. People should not judge you for your decisions to have children or not. If you do decide to have a child it’s because you want them and you have love to give them. At the end of the day if you choose not to have a child for health reasons then that is Your decision only. No one else can make that decision for you.

Yes. People who are feckless parents with chaotic lives entwined with crime and addiction. Poor children don't stand a chance.

@GeorgiaGirl52 That is such a sad story.

Poor woman, and poor children.

@Darlingx

I think it’s more the case that it’s frustrating that you would be a good parent and that some lousy awful people that get to have children with ease and mistreat them. I think if you were involved in the services which help children fostering it would balance the world out a bit. I believe in the disadvantaged children having good parental role models . My father was hopeless and caused a lot of misery but I had a lovely Grandfather but he lived overseas. He taught me to ride a bike about the stars etc. Next door through the walls I can hear a man shouting get in the effing bath 3 times. He smokes drugs and has sole care of a 4/5 yr old who cries a lot. I think the mother died she smoked a lot of drugs whilst that baby was needing breastfeeding ?? I told her to her face to please stop smoking mainly because I was pregnant at the time and the drug fumes were throughout our flat . It was distressing me . I had a miscarriage she had a lovely healthy baby but choses her addiction over the health of that babies lungs. Now it has a father that shouts because raising a child solo is tough . It’s a hopeless situation . I would not get services involved because I don’t really know what the full story is and he gets up early gets her out of the house like clockwork she is well dressed fed etc but he swears shouts at times and sometimes the fumes of drugs drift in not as much as before. I suppose he is doing his best but it’s not ideal what in life ever is though. I am just glad that I haven’t bought a child into a life of tensions. I would not want the trauma on my hands but some people create human wreckage. You can love children as a whole as in children you can care for which is very rewarding . I vowed to never let a child down and I kept my promise . I expressed my need to nuture and it does fill that gap. I bump into them now they are at Uni and stop to speak to me which is lovely . I can see a mother cooing at her beautiful baby and enjoy the beauty of that moment without longing so badly . It is possible to make peace with it .

You vowed to never let a child down? You are letting the child next door down. Report this man so he can get help to stop damaging this child.

Any children that I had duty of care of I never let down. I will need to discuss with a neighbour about my fragments of what I have heard or seen and get their advice on what to do. I certainly don’t think I know the full picture and will try and find some people that do. It’s troubling me which is why I mentioned it but its something I have to do correctly. My concern is that to have intervention could be creating him to lose his temper more at the child it has to be handled very delicately with help from other neighbours I imagine who might know more about his situation. Swearing at a child or smoking weed are probably not enough to have social services involved its if the child is not being looked after correctly as in fed, clothed, being at nursery or the park. Was he shouting at her to have a bath because he cares but is overstretched it could be this. Should anyone smoke around children or have a weed habit . Its not good but I imagine its a quite a common thing? I heard the swearing only yesterday and tied this in with my partner mentioning he doesn’t like the way he speaks to her and she cries a lot.
We are piecing things together and keeping a watchful eye. I will discuss this with an older neighbour who has spoken to him.

I was born into awful circumstances. But I'm glad I was born. Do you wish you didn't exist? Many great people (both influential and not) were born into horrifying circumstances.

It really doesn’t work like that. You can judge that this is a bad situation to bring a baby in without wishing the person hadn’t been born.

Objectively my parents shouldn’t have had any children (and they’ve had a LOT). It doesn’t mean I wish I would die/hadn’t been born, but objectively I can see that they’ve done more damage than good. My siblings and I have basically been a 70/30 tossup as to who will have an okay like and who will have a miserable existence and that’s because of my parents.

Again - I do not wish I hadn’t been born, and I love all my siblings and wouldn’t want them gone. But if I met someone in my parents situation I wouldn’t advise them to have children at all.

@Darlingx

Any children that I had duty of care of I never let down. I will need to discuss with a neighbour about my fragments of what I have heard or seen and get their advice on what to do. I certainly don’t think I know the full picture and will try and find some people that do. It’s troubling me which is why I mentioned it but its something I have to do correctly. My concern is that to have intervention could be creating him to lose his temper more at the child it has to be handled very delicately with help from other neighbours I imagine who might know more about his situation. Swearing at a child or smoking weed are probably not enough to have social services involved its if the child is not being looked after correctly as in fed, clothed, being at nursery or the park. Was he shouting at her to have a bath because he cares but is overstretched it could be this. Should anyone smoke around children or have a weed habit . Its not good but I imagine its a quite a common thing? I heard the swearing only yesterday and tied this in with my partner mentioning he doesn’t like the way he speaks to her and she cries a lot. We are piecing things together and keeping a watchful eye. I will discuss this with an older neighbour who has spoken to him.

It's the lots of crying that sounds worrying. It's tough with neighbours I know but u could phone nspcc anonymously to talk it through.

Yes I have just been discussing it with my partner . I could hear her crying in the night waking him and assuming her mother has died I felt like that might be why it’s hard to know was he the cause but it was hearing him swear at her and my partner saying he didn’t like the way he spoke to her now I have heard it but it was trying to get her to have a bath. It’s really tricky and yes I feel I need experienced advice on whether anything could be done. Hopefully in a positive way .

If it's any reassurance, you can speak to them or social services anonymously, the law protects you from having your name revealed though of course he might guess. It's a tough one but incredibly upsetting for you.

I don’t think I can answer the question directly. I judge people who can’t grasp the personhood of a baby (or a child, or a woman, or a person of another race, ethnicity or religious persuasion), and I judge their decisions when they put their own needs and desires ahead of another because they haven’t recognised that there’s a separate reality and experience involved.

I can absolutely understand the biological drive to reproduce and how painful that can be, but to have a child with a realistic chance that you won’t be able to care for them, or live until they are adults is not something I would actively choose for my children.

@Eastie77Returns I completely agree with you. It's extremely unfair to bring children into the world when you knowingly cannot clothe or feed them. You absolutely do not have to be "well off" or able to pay all their university tuition, but they deserve basic needs met. I find it v selfish when families who are obviously financially struggling deliberately bring multiple children into the situation.

@Ducksareruiningmypatio

Yes I do sorry. I have a friend that has significant disabilities and decided to go ahead and have a child. That child is now bullied because children are cruel, she's on her second school, doesn't get to do the activities other kids do because of her home life, has caring responsibilities etc. It's not fair She's loved, but that isn't always enough.

This is terribly sad. I do judge over stuff like this too. It's so selfish