Do you ever privately judge people for bringing a baby into bad circumstances?

[Boilthekettleplease]

I've wondered how other people feel about this.

I'm coming to terms with not having a child of my own, because ultimately it would be putting my own needs ahead of any child to risk trying to have one. There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure.

I'm curious if people would judge me for (hypothetically) trying to be a mum in a situation like this? Or do most people feel that the drive for a child is so strong they understand why people try against all the odds?

Do you ever judge people for having a child in situations where there are predictable risks or downsides?

@motherofthelittlescreamingone

Yes, to be honest I would not judge you in the moment, but later on if your child later grew up and said how awful it was growing up without a mum and how awful it was knowing that their birth contributed to that, I would probably think that you had done the wrong thing. And that is a possibility.

There are other options in your situation - I know adoption is a difficult route and has its own challenges, but it might be better.

So when someone reveals they had an unhappy or challenging childhood due to parental circumstances or choices, your response is to look at that person and think it would be better if they had not been born?

@Boilthekettleplease It sounds like you’ve really put a lot of thought into your situation OP and I think you’ve made a very brave and selfless choice. I truly hope that you get to experience motherhood one day - I think your idea of adoption is amazing.

@SadHermit Im so sorry for what you’re going through. I really hope you get everything you long for ❤️

Reading about people having such medical issues makes me so thankful for my own health and what I have. I could never judge anyone in those situations having no experience of it myself!

Personally, I do judge people who intentionally get pregnant despite being in an awful situation and not being able to provide for the child - be that financially or emotionally.
I grew up on a council estate with a self employed dad and SAHM who absolutely hated each other but “stayed together for the kids”. My older sibling and I used to sit on the stairs and listen to them fighting every night, either one or the other would leave for weeks at a time, yet they still went on to have more children. I’m now in my 30s, they’re still together because neither is in a financial position to leave. They still fight daily. I vowed to myself that I wouldn’t have children unless I was confident I could offer them a much happier home than I grew up in. Where I grew up, nobody ever really seems to leave either. The done thing is to get your name on the housing list as soon as you are “of age”, have children young (usually with a boy from the estate) and moving in to your own property on the estate. And the cycle continues.
I’m very thankful that I’ve been able to break that cycle for myself. I worked as hard as I could to get out of the area, I met a really good man who I have now been with 12 years and we have just had DC1.

Yes I judge people, there are so many unhappy children living in awful circumstances. It's not about being well off, it's about being in a stable situation for several years so you know you can provide all the things a child needs. Obviously disaster can strike anyone but that's even more reason why you need to be as stable and prepared beforehand as possible.

I think you have to think of yourself too OP. How would you feel to give birth and then find out you're dying due to kidney failure and never going to see your child grow up? For me that would be worse than never having a child.

@TurnUpTurnip

People won't admit it but yes people.will

Yes. I do admit it.

For example silly women who know their partners are useless arseholes and then have babies with them. For goodness sake leave them and find someone less useless!

But in your case it sounds like the downsides would be more for you? But then if it affects your health, could you look after a child well? I don't think I would risk having a child if there was a high chance I couldn't look after it - childbirth is a bit of a case of Russian roulette as it is, you never know what state you will be left in afterwards.

@SugarlumpsesBumpses

Depends how bad!

It hurts me to see when people have multiple children removed as they're in dire circumstances, and still keep having kids year after year, as I know how hard it is to be in care for those children and what life will be like if you don't get lucky with a good/stable adoptive/foster placement.

That’s so true, speaking as an adoptive mum to 2 DDs who are birth siblings. They also have 2 other siblings placed with other families.

The reality is that even those who are adopted into loving families can still be badly damaged. My DD1 (now 12) has attachment issues as well as SEN. So do her 2 siblings placed elsewhere. Thankfully, DD2 doesn’t;

Adoptive parents, however loving they might be, can’t undo the trauma done to children who are removed from their birth mothers. I don’t judge my DDs’ birth mum for giving birth to multiple children, as she herself was badly damaged after growing up in care.

It’s all just very sad, and does demonstrate that there are people who shouldn’t have children.

Yes I do. Not women who have children with useless fathers, but those who bring new people into the world and then make no effort to nurture them. I sometimes wonder, why do they even bother?

I know someone who fostered a child who was born addicted to heroin, was abused by his mothers boyfriends and was regularly left alone in what was essentially a drug den for extended periods of time. Even when his mother was clean and working towards custody, visitation involved her scrolling on her phone instead of engaging with the child she had made.

In your situation, no. The drive to have children is strong.

I would advise finding someone else to do it with though.

I would never judge. Life is both precious and precarious, and as none of us is granted a single day, it would be stupid in the extreme to judge someone for having a baby when her own time might be short. Any of us posting here could be dead by tonight, after all.

Also, my husband lost his mum when he was a toddler. Her condition was exacerbated by the birth, from which she never fully recovered. The world is a better place for having him, and for having had his by all accounts lovely mother, in it.

I guess statistical probability isnt a thing in your world then @PlanktonsComputerWife? And you live each day as though it's your last ? (will save on washing at least).

TTC is not sensible in certain circumstances. Judging is such a negative word. If you form an opinion on a situation based on the facts and that opinion is that something isn't the sensible choice, that doesn't mean you are judging the person (judging as in negatively viewing them and thinking you're better than them)

Do I have opinions on what, to me, are and are not sensible things? Yes.
Do I view the person negatively and think I'm better than them? No.

I'm not looking for an internet slanging match with someone who can't or won't appreciate the frailty of our existence. Thanks, though.

I think I judge people in certain circumstances because of personal experiences of seeing the outcome. For example, one of my friends (firstborn) was born with CF and nearly died as a child. They have now had a lung transplant but is still unwell all of the time, has no real quality of life, will still die before her time. Her mum went onto have 4/5 more kids knowing there was a very real possibility of them all potentially having CF and suffering the same fate as her. 2 more of them was born with CF and if not given a lung transplant could potentially die before reaching a teenage age. That to me is selfish because she is knowingly having more and more kids knowing they could have a whole lifetime full of illness and hospitals - that is if they all even survive.

@PlanktonsComputerWife

I would never judge. Life is both precious and precarious, and as none of us is granted a single day, it would be stupid in the extreme to judge someone for having a baby when her own time might be short. Any of us posting here could be dead by tonight, after all.

Also, my husband lost his mum when he was a toddler. Her condition was exacerbated by the birth, from which she never fully recovered. The world is a better place for having him, and for having had his by all accounts lovely mother, in it.

I agree with you. Childhood experiences, though important are not the be all and end all of life. Nor is having a healthy living mother throughout your childhood. There are many of us, like your husband who didn't have this yet are functional adults who contribute to the world. To suggest a child would be better to have no life than to have a life without a mother somewhat overplays the (albeit important) role of a mother.

My ex has a baby with a woman he was (using his words) having a bit of fun with. He now barely sees the baby and has a new girlfriend. They barely knew each other, so not enough time to gather what a twat he is. So, yes, I judge both of them.

Also i don’t get why the ‘strong drive to reproduce’ is sufficient justification for anything.
Animals can’t control their natural drives. Humans can.
That’s why we expect people to restrain themselves, to be inclusive and unprejudiced (even when humans are inherently tribal). To not fuck anything that moves when they want it.

However when it comes to reproducing it’s supposedly all good

@SENmummy73848

I think I judge people in certain circumstances because of personal experiences of seeing the outcome. For example, one of my friends (firstborn) was born with CF and nearly died as a child. They have now had a lung transplant but is still unwell all of the time, has no real quality of life, will still die before her time. Her mum went onto have 4/5 more kids knowing there was a very real possibility of them all potentially having CF and suffering the same fate as her. 2 more of them was born with CF and if not given a lung transplant could potentially die before reaching a teenage age. That to me is selfish because she is knowingly having more and more kids knowing they could have a whole lifetime full of illness and hospitals - that is if they all even survive.

That is frankly horrifying. And I know it's not the main focus - though it would be a real consideration for me - but wider society is asked to pay the price for this in terms of extremely expensive medical interventions, use of resources, etc. It is selfish and cruel on so many levels.

@5128gap you said that very well.

I have a friend who has a condition that means she can barely get out of bed on a regular basis. This condition is progressive and incurable. She's currently having IVF as she can't get pregnant naturally.

I don't know if I'm judging but I do have concerns. How will she tend to the baby when she can't move?

Like a pp, I also hate it when people say shouldn't have kids you can't afford.

This is selfish though. Why bring children into the world if you can't afford to house, clothe and feed those children? Your decision will have a terrible impact on those children's lives and prospects in life. But your right to be a mother comes above that does it?

Yes I would judge.

I don't think badly of people who bring a baby into the world who they can't fully care for as I do understand. But I do have thoughts about it and I know other people do, as they've told me their thoughts..... For example, I have a family friend who has Epliepsy which has severely effected their ability to function. The oldest child (primary age) takes responsibility way beyond his age and in what could be potentially dangerous situations. The grandparents are a lot more involved than they would like to be through necessity. So there were definitely 'opinions' being quietly shared when they purposefully became pregnant with a second child. None of this was nasty or uncaring. But people did think it was not fair on the existing family to add to the burden. Not saying this is comparable to the OP's situation.

It depends! In a case like yours OP, no I wouldn't. We could all become ill or disabled at any moment. Your health is not necessarily in your control and with the right support it can work.

I do judge people who knowingly bring a child into poor circumstances due to their own selfish desire to have a baby. Part of your responsibility as a parent or prospective parent is to consider what kind of life your child will have with you.

One of my oldest and dearest friends tried for many years to have a baby but unfortunately wasn't successful. I hate to admit it but I did (privately) judge her because as much as she's a lovely person and really wanted a child she couldn't have reliably looked after or provided for one. Her child would have at best ended up as a child carer living in poverty, at worst ended up in care.

Someone else I know has just had a baby and I judge her too (again, privately). She is apparently too ill to work and lives in a spare room at a relative's house. Her baby daddy is an unemployed drug addict, a massive misogynist and just generally the most useless man child you could have the misfortune to meet. He was also someone else's boyfriend when she got pregnant. Her MIL hates her and openly wished for her to have a miscarriage, so she'll either end up with no support (financial or otherwise) or squabbling over who has 'rights' and access to the baby for the next 18 years. How anyone can think it's a good idea to bring an innocent baby into that shit show I have no idea. She seems the think parenting is all cute newborn snuggles on Instagram and comes with a free council house. Completely deluded.

Yes I think on face value most people would give a little side eye to anyone bringing a baby into the world knowing that the situation is far from desirable.

That said, I would understand. I would truly understand the maternal pull because I’ve felt it myself and know how utterly bereft it can leave you.
So whilst I might make a snap judgement, I know it’s far more complicated than just “I wanted a baby so fuck it”

Well I’m strongly judging Liz Kendall today. And not in a good way.

I think, OP, that you're doing a very brave and selfless thing - not many people are able to put their putative children before their own almost overwhelming desire to have a child. You are doing a really good thing.

I'm so very sorry you're in this situation