Do you ever privately judge people for bringing a baby into bad circumstances?

[Boilthekettleplease]

I've wondered how other people feel about this.

I'm coming to terms with not having a child of my own, because ultimately it would be putting my own needs ahead of any child to risk trying to have one. There's a high chance it would be a medical disaster and I'd be permanently seriously affected, which means I wouldn't be as able to look after the child, or die a few years later from kidney failure.

I'm curious if people would judge me for (hypothetically) trying to be a mum in a situation like this? Or do most people feel that the drive for a child is so strong they understand why people try against all the odds?

Do you ever judge people for having a child in situations where there are predictable risks or downsides?

I judge my neighbour who fell pregnant with a boyfriend of 3 months, and knew then he was a totally unsuitable partner and father but went through with it….and then fell pregnant again 18 months later and kept that too. He is a drunk, can’t hold down a job, suffering depression, a bully, a thief, a liar. She is stuck with him (her choices throughout have been so flawed it’s almost unbelievable if it weren’t actually happening). I judge her. I don’t want to but I do. She brought not one but two children into a situation that she knew was a disaster waiting to happen. Of course now she is stuck…. Bullied into being a SAHM with almost no income, begging for handouts from him, being bullied daily, had her car taken by him, he is a dick through and through and even though I know ultimately the blame lies with him….. she KNEW and said as much, that this was going to happen. So I listen and I offer help but ultimately I want to scream, you brought this all on yourself because you wanted children sooooo much but didn’t care that this would be their life enough to change the path you were on.

Yes. But in your circumstances. Ofcouse it is difficult, it's somewhat out of your control. Unknown if you will be ok or not.

However someone I know currently pregnant. Planned to start trying after several months of meeting. No job, unsupportive partner who already has several kids he has walked out on. I can't help but feel it was an unreasonable thing to do. Although I wouldn't say it/have supported her through it. It's her life.

I really really try not to because it should be a blessing and if I don't know the whole picture, it's not my place to judge- sometimes bad circs are temporary. My hypothetical exceptions are people with addiction/living around addiction, with serious, serious health issues or who are of a very advanced age- especially if there isn't a younger partner to balance it- or similar issues, I do find myself wondering why they've done it. It seems about them more than what they can offer a child.

In reality, I've only ever really, consciously, knowingly judged twice and it was people with none of the issues above/bad circumstances but their personalities. One was very immature and volatile and the other is very selfish by nature - both times I just kept being preoccupied by their children bearing the brunt of this. It's their lives though.

No, would never judge anyone on their medical grounds and think I’d have to know someone well to think they weren’t capable of caring for a child well.

I have often wondered if midwives sometimes deliver a baby and think “ poor soul, doesn’t stand a chance” from what they see of parent/s. Don’t know any midwives to ask though.

Have you considered using a surrogate so that you don’t have to carry the pregnancy, to protect your health I understand that it is very expensive but there might be someone willing to help you for altruistic reasons or a family member. You cannot predict the future, but if you want a baby their may be ways of having a child or you could consider adoption if the risk is too high. Best of luck

@Okbye

Yes, I do.

I work in social housing and get shouted at pretty much every other day by mums who have 5/6/7 children in a 2/3 bedroom property demanding a bigger property ‘because my kids are all sharing a room and I’m pregnant again blah blah blah’.

It INFURIATES me that these people keep getting pregnant when they already haven’t got enough room and demanding 4, 5 and even 6 bed houses when (where I work) they’re like fucking gold dust, hence the long wait on the housing list. They seem to think the Councils/Housing Associations can just pull a property out of thin air for them 🤨🤬🙄

I once had a client like that, although in fairness, she didn't bang on about getting a bigger place.

She had a child virtually every year* from the age of 18, and the last I heard she had 8. The council made one big house out of 2 3-bed town houses for them.

She was a fab mum though, despite having a mild LD. She had a lot of support from her own mum, she kept her house absolutely immaculate and the children always looked clean, well dressed and well-nourished.

*She had a year off when her then partner was in prison

Not RTFT just all the OP posts.
I think if you have been advised that the medical stakes are high and could be disastrous for a newborn, then when you choose to not have a child from your own body, you are showing the highest form of maternal instinct FWIW.
I would strongly urge you to consider fostering or, if it's only the pregnancy that could threaten your long term prospects, adoption. We can express maternal instincts in many forms. The greatest love, where it is actually demonstrated, is that of a non-biologically-related parent for their chosen child. This is true, human, love.

OP have you considered a surrogate?

The OP has already stated that she doesn't agree with surrogacy.

I tried 7 times... Each time, no child! Because I wasn't married, no IVF. If I could have gone private, I could have got IVF but there was a financial and health cost, so I chose no children. In the end, found out I have a spilt womb, possibly due to a twin in the womb... But I have been happy without and have done heaps of things I would have struggled to do with children. Sometimes the choice is taken away and there is no choice but to get on with it. You can and come out stronger.

Hmm it's a tough one. I do a little bit, where major issues are already known and are bound to make a child's life far harder.

Eg my friend and her partner both have serious mental health issues which have included multiple sectionings for both of them, but they now have a (planned) baby together. The majority of the baby's life has been spent with one or the other of them only, because the other has been on hospital for their MH. Social services are involved too obviously.

I completely understand and empathise with the desire to have what everyone else has and what you feel you deserve, but it's also so hard when the child is impacted so heavily. He is only tiny now so doesn't know, but it's highly likely this will continue through his childhood and I expect there will come a time where he ends up living with his grandparents as his parents' lives are so unstable.

I would try not to judge because you simply never know what another person is going, or has gone, through.
I am so sorry for this, OP. I had many miscarriages and am lucky enough to have had children but I never take it for granted.

I would have considered surrogacy or adoption, but I know we’re all different.

Does it ever occur to people that women can get pregnant precisely because their partner is abusive? And then may also be prevented from getting a morning after pill? We act well when we are in circumstances that allow us time to reflect and take care. Can you all honestly say ‘I always make good decisions when under pressure/ depressed/in pain?’

Yes I would think you are incredible selfish sorry. Putting your own desire for a baby above the lifelong needs of that child indicates you wouldn’t be a good parent.

@MeltedButter

Sorry to say this but I do feel like people who are above 55 years old who have children are selfish. It's not nice for a 20 odd year old to start worrying about the death of their parents.

I was 22, when my 41 year old mum died, my brother was 4 years old. 9 years later, we lost our dad. We don't know what the future holds.

Also, you're not sorry to say that at all. If you believe that, stand up for your belief and don't apologise. OP is asking people to be honest.

I judge my own past self the most harshly! And the circumstances I brought children into. But it does mean I have empathy for other people even when I - privately - disagree with their choices. Because I know the drive to create a family, especially if that’s something you missed out on. And that it’s hard to view a situation, or relationship, objectively while you’re in it.

It sounds like you have a renal condition and I can understand your concerns about end Stage renal failure, on dialysis or having a transplant ( I was a renal nurse). I think a lot depends on individual circumstances- single parent or with a supportive partner, extended family support etc. Nobody knows what's ahead for them but, if someone already has serious health problems then probably sensible and selfless not to have children but very difficult decision if you long for a child.

@Passenger42

Have you considered using a surrogate so that you don’t have to carry the pregnancy, to protect your health I understand that it is very expensive but there might be someone willing to help you for altruistic reasons or a family member. You cannot predict the future, but if you want a baby their may be ways of having a child or you could consider adoption if the risk is too high. Best of luck

I see why you might think this is a good idea but isn’t surrogacy just outsourcing the potential health issues of pregnancy and birth to another woman?

Sure, the risks won’t be as high as for the OP that that doesn’t mean no risk.

I'll admit to saying that I've judged, but only people who've never worked and lived on benefits their whole lives, then proceed to have half a dozen kids, expecting taxpayers to pay for them. IMO (I know I'll be slated for this), people who clearly have no intention of paying for their own offspring shouldn't be allowed to have them.

It's different if you've had them when you were able to pay for them and then circumstances change (through no fault of your own) and you end up on benefits, these things can't be foretold.

As for health concerns, if the potential mother has health issues (as I do) and wants to try for a child, as long as they know that they (or a family member) will be able to raise the child, I don't see an issue with this. Myself, I had my first child then 4yrs later was diagnosed with MS, a couple of years later I got pregnant again but my doctor said I should terminate because giving birth could have an extremely detrimental effect on my health and ability to take care of a new baby. I declined his advice on the basis of having my in-laws around me to help. I will say that at this time my husband and I were both working, although we later divorced but I continued raising them (and paying for them) alone until I became unable to work when my youngest was 15. I'm glad I ignored the doctor because I now have 2 wonderful adult sons, I have had problems with my health but not so bad that I was unable to look after my boys.

Yes I do.

In most modern countries we have body autonomy and access to free contraception and abortion services.

Having children when you have known health issues, can't properly financially support them or are strapped to an abusive loser and knocked up with no 3 when you have 2 under 4 is not a good life choice. I wouldnt choose it for myself or support in general.

I also think just because you can doesn't mean you should. A 50 year old renting a womb to become a mother does not sit well with me.

I guess I do, in a way. A girl I knew had 1 child, was leaving her husband due to DV, then got intentionally pregnant again. They did in fact end up divorced, with 2 kids in the mix instead of 1. I just thought "why would you"?

I remember vividly seeing a video of a woman with ALS, dying in her hospital bed breastfeeding her newborn. Her own mother died of ALS in her 30s. She was doing the same. Her newborn daughter had an 80% chance of meeting the same end.
I thought WTAF. What selfishness does it take to bring a child into the world knowing she will die with tubes attached to her, in a living coffin. She saw her own mother die that way.
Utterly fucked up!

And yes I do judge.

I think it’s more the case that it’s frustrating that you would be a good parent and that some lousy awful people that get to have children with ease and mistreat them. I think if you were involved in the services which help children fostering it would balance the world out a bit. I believe in the disadvantaged children having good parental role models . My father was hopeless and caused a lot of misery but I had a lovely Grandfather but he lived overseas. He taught me to ride a bike about the stars etc.
Next door through the walls I can hear a man shouting get in the effing bath 3 times. He smokes drugs and has sole care of a 4/5 yr old who cries a lot. I think the mother died she smoked a lot of drugs whilst that baby was needing breastfeeding ?? I told her to her face to please stop smoking mainly because I was pregnant at the time and the drug fumes were throughout our flat . It was distressing me . I had a miscarriage she had a lovely healthy baby but choses her addiction over the health of that babies lungs. Now it has a father that shouts because raising a child solo is tough . It’s a hopeless situation . I would not get services involved because I don’t really know what the full story is and he gets up early gets her out of the house like clockwork she is well dressed fed etc but he swears shouts at times and sometimes the fumes of drugs drift in not as much as before.
I suppose he is doing his best but it’s not ideal what in life ever is though. I am just glad that I haven’t bought a child into a life of tensions. I would not want the trauma on my hands but some people create human wreckage. You can love children as a whole as in children you can care for which is very rewarding . I vowed to never let a child down and I kept my promise . I expressed my need to nuture and it does fill that gap. I bump into them now they are at Uni and stop to speak to me which is lovely . I can see a mother cooing at her beautiful baby and enjoy the beauty of that moment without longing so badly . It is possible to make peace with it .

Everybody slating people who couldn't afford kids should consider of they could afford them before casting their stones.

Education and health care are welfare, they're just universal as opposed to means tested. If you used the welfare state to raise your kids you also couldn't afford them.

20 years ago not affording to have kids wasn't a thing. I had my first child with no job and a partner with no job. Our robust welfare state at the time meant he never went without food or shelter or clothes.

We are now extremely financially comfortable, mainly because our welfare system allowed me to go into education when the kids were little.

Kids don't have to go hungry. The state chooses to allow it.