AIBU to want my mat leave plus promotion

[MiniPumpkin]

Need to post this to get some perspective or give my head a wobble.. whatever you all think ..
So been with large organisation for 10 years, promoted posts are few and far between, to put into context it has come up three times in the 10 years I’ve been there, including during my mat leave with dc1. Now on mat leave with dc2 it’s come up again. I want the job, always have and I’m pretty career driven but of course I also want my mat leave to continue. I want what I am entitled to which is my entire maternity leave. And I want promotion. If I get it they will want me back early.
I’m just sick of well, being female ? Woman’s careers are so disadvantaged if you ask me, I turned down a job (with another organisation) when ttc with dc1 as I wouldn’t get as good mat leave pay.. then of course you can’t go anywhere/leave when pregnant as you will lose the maternity pay. Now I feel I want this job but feel I will just be discriminated against, I wont get it as they will just say I didn’t do as well because they will no doubt prefer to give it to someone not on mat leave.
Not even sure of point in this post, I need somewhere to vent and get perspective. I feel like saying stuff it and just wait till my mat leave is over but who knows when the next opportunity will be and it really annoys me…

You want a career but you also wanted 2 kids. Those things don't really go handing hand. One of them will suffer .You made choices ..

Isn't it funny how men manage to have multiple children and a career .........

@MiniPumpkin
I will ask whether they would require me back..

When having a chat with the hiring manger, don't mention timing - talk about how you are qualified and interested in the role and don't draw anything into the conversation that may be considered negative.

Closing date is the end of Nov

• 4 weeks for interviews etc = Christmas time So you are into January anyway before you'd be starting the new role if you were not on mat leave. So negotiate from there. Don't volunteer to give up your mat leave unless they start specifying dates.

If you wanted to, you could make a gesture of good will to sit in on team meetings (if that's the sort of thing would be involved in the new role) prior to your return.

You were 2nd candidate the last time around - don't talk yourself out of this before you ever apply. Ignore all the people who are saying you can't do that to the business. It's a business. If you are the right person for the job they'll wait a few weeks.

@Marvellousmadness

You want a career but you also wanted 2 kids. Those things don't really go handing hand. One of them will suffer .You made choices ..

But there are still choices to be made that you have influence on. By returning earlier from mat leave for example

But I think you are getting ahead of yourself. You don't even know you are even considered for the job/likely to get the job .

So apply first. Then deal with what will come

Do you hear yourself when you typed out the first sentence? When do men ever get told they can't have a family and children?

How's the weather in 1951, @Marvellousmadness?

Well, as you haven’t applied you’ll never know. Why not apply and see how you get on?

That said, I don’t think it is necessarily the case that if you don’t get the job it is unfair- there may be a better candidate. Or there may be a candidate who is as good but who can start at a time that is more suitable for your employer. There is an element of choice- you are entitled to full mat leave, of course, but if you make that choice then there can be consequences for career progression (in my field, it might take you longer to get to consultant as your training is paused when you are off)- you generally get there but it can take longer to get there.

We are looking to recruit- we desperately need the post filled and are having issues trying to get locum cover (and it is VERY expensive) as it is. Maternity cover is not always possible to obtain at the minute. We would really struggle to appoint someone who had many months of maternity leave left and did not want to cut it short. A few weeks longer than standard notice period would be fine, but many months or a year, would simply not be suitable- even for a great candidate. It’s not discrimination- it is that you cannot take up the post in the timeframe required. This would be the same for any candidate who had a very long notice (longer than standard) period, for whatever reason. It’s disappointing, but there it is.

@Marvellousmadness

You want a career but you also wanted 2 kids. Those things don't really go handing hand. One of them will suffer .You made choices ..

But there are still choices to be made that you have influence on. By returning earlier from mat leave for example

But I think you are getting ahead of yourself. You don't even know you are even considered for the job/likely to get the job .

So apply first. Then deal with what will come

Are you insane?!?!? What drivel is this?!?!

@SpinsForGin

You want a career but you also wanted 2 kids. Those things don't really go handing hand. One of them will suffer .You made choices ..

Isn't it funny how men manage to have multiple children and a career .........

It depends on the career chosen and whether its one parent or both. Not all careers lend themselves to child friendly status.

It depends on the career chosen and whether its one parent or both. Not all careers lend themselves to child friendly status.

And guess who is disadvantaged in these situations??

I research, teach and write about women's career development and this thread is so depressing. Just shows how little progress we've made

@SpinsForGin

It depends on the career chosen and whether its one parent or both. Not all careers lend themselves to child friendly status.

And guess who is disadvantaged in these situations??

I research, teach and write about women's career development and this thread is so depressing. Just shows how little progress we've made

In our case it was DH who was primary carer he enjoyed his job, wasn't interested in promotion away from his role and he loved being dad.

We've been recruiting internally recently, and honestly I don't think the interview is what seals the deal.

If you're an internal then it's likely they already know a bit about you, if you're good at your job, if you're well suited to this job.

We've had people do really well in interview on the face of it, but we've known that they wouldn't fit the team dynamic.

However someone we recently promoted absolutely messed up her interview, but as several of us have worked with her previously we knew she'd be great at job, and we gave it to her.

Some people interview terribly (me included), but I've been promoted based on working on several successful projects with others in my dept.

I really don't think whether or not you get the role is down to the interview.

@Dexy007 I’ve only read up to page 5 but as many others have said the approach you’re describing would legally constitute sex discrimination.

Also, newsflash, not everyone in the U.K. is entitled to shared parental leave. My DH is self employed and not entitled to it and I am by far the higher earner. I am extremely committed to my career but guess what, an extra 6 months off in a 40 year career really doesn’t matter much. Thankfully my employer is much more enlightened than you.

OP - go for it, absolutely. Deal with any issues if you’re offered the job.

@AudacityBaby you’ve acknowledged it’s an issue with the employer who set the PQE requirement, and therefore nothing whatsoever to do with the women who got the job (and let’s face it, must have been absolutely awesome to do so given their time out of the office), yet you’ve come on to a thread about mat leave basically to complain about it like it’s somehow the women’s fault for having kids. Your attitude is quite transparent.

YABU to complain when you haven’t applied. You e no idea what they may say. Also if you really want the job and they really want you to start then you could split the leave with your husband? So you both have six months with baby

We have loads of women who are promoted just before, during or after mat leave - I could think of 10 right now. Put in an application and roll the dice!

Fully agree with this

@BonnesVacances women must of course take the first few months of mat leave to recover. But it is the law in the UK (and has been for some time) that parents can split their parental leave as they see fit. The problem is that many parents don't want too. You do often see one parent wanting to stay off for a whole year even when the paid element of their parental leave has run out and they are on SMP/SPP.

And then the cycle the parents have created continues. The hierarchy has been established. The default parent (sick days, pick up, drop off) has been selected by the parents and it's hard to shake it off.

It is not that men 'get' to have children without their careers suffering it is that women start families with men who do not respect them and their career or that women voluntarily sacrifice their own career for their husband's.

I am not denying that sex based discrimination exists - god in my industry it is rife. But it is not the fault of the employer if a woman or a man chooses to stay home on parental leave for 12 m and let their spouse go back to work.

Just seen your updates @MiniPumpkin

That is awesome sounds like you have a great chance of getting it and by the time the process is finished we are talking a few weeks difference .. don't mention start date until you get the offer. Good luck 🤞🏼

Wow @Ericaequites just wow

Oh I would add just one more point to @BonnesVacances post I quoted below. The additional piece is that with men still out earning their female partners in the majority of cases that SPL isn't affordable for all couples. That last 3-6 months isn't paid, very rarely do companies contribute to that. Or if affordable, still economically irrational. So it becomes much harder to break the cycle.

@TractorAndHeadphones
Sorry, I wasn't even the poster you asked for a link!

Here's a link to acas which specifically addresses your question. Employers are obliged to let women on maternity leave know about any job vacancies and promotions.
www.acas.org.uk/your-maternity-leave-pay-and-other-rights/while-youre-on-maternity-leave

It’s very hard to have it all at once. If you want career advancement and have small children, it’s going to be tough. Remember that you career won’t look after you when you are old or sick. Most men can’t or won’t lean in. Household help and high quality daycare can be difficult to find.

@FrazzledCareerWoman I don’t see why anyone should be discriminated against for taking their entitlement, male or female. It’s not as black and white as you seem to suggest.

In my own case I knew that my partner (who was not entitled to any SPL) would be taking up the role of “default parent” as soon as I returned to work. He now works 3 days a week and I am full time. He does all the bedtimes; I often have to work late. It meant a lot for me to be able to take that year to breastfeed my (bottle refusing) babies for the full year and give them that time when they were really little.

There is no sense that I “voluntarily sacrificed” my career for my husband’s. Far from it. It’s so disappointing to see some of the attitudes on this thread.

Wow @Ericaequites I don’t even know where to start. Pretty sure my career, which is paying for private healthcare, a large pension and will pay off my mortgage, IS going to look after me when I’m old and sick. Which is a good thing because I would hate to burden my kids with those things. I didn’t have them to make carers for my future self. And if my husband didn’t “lean in” that would be nothing to do with my career choices.

@Jujujuly where did I say to discriminate? It's pointing out a cycle that is self perpetuating. Just look at what happens to the vast majority of dual career couples once kids come along. Exceptions happen, sure.

@FrazzledCareerWoman you said something along the lines of it’s not the employer’s fault
if someone chooses to take the year and let their spouse go back to work, ie you imply that any negative consequences for that decision are not the employer’s “fault” but merely reflect the parent on leave’s “choice”. Is that not what you meant? Do you think people who take 12 months of leave should be penalised at work?

@Ericaequites

You choose to have two children and have two maternity leaves. If you are out on maternity, it’s unlikely you will be offered a promotion when they need someone now. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Jesus.

She chose- all on her own?

And is her husband facing the same dilemmas?