Page 10 | AIBU to want my mat leave plus promotion

MiniPumpkin · 2021-11-21T21:04:51+00:00

Need to post this to get some perspective or give my head a wobble.. whatever you all think .. So been with large organisation for 10 years, promoted posts are few and far between, to put into context it has come up three times in the 10 years I’ve been there, including during my mat leave with dc1. Now on mat leave with dc2 it’s come up again. I want the job, always have and I’m pretty career driven but of course I also want my mat leave to continue. I want what I am entitled to which is my entire maternity leave. And I want promotion. If I get it they will want me back early. I’m just sick of well, being female ? Woman’s careers are so disadvantaged if you ask me, I turned down a job (with another organisation) when ttc with dc1 as I wouldn’t get as good mat leave pay.. then of course you can’t go anywhere/leave when pregnant as you will lose the maternity pay. Now I feel I want this job but feel I will just be discriminated against, I wont get it as they will just say I didn’t do as well because they will no doubt prefer to give it to someone not on mat leave. Not even sure of point in this post, I need somewhere to vent and get perspective. I feel like saying stuff it and just wait till my mat leave is over but who knows when the next opportunity will be and it really annoys me…

quitecrunchy · 22/11/2021 22:13

I interviewed for promotion when my DC was 10 weeks old, got it and then saw out my full year mat leave. Just go for it! If they have any sense they will be thinking long term. There's no point in having a second best person in the role permanently when they could have the best person in a few months time. There's no point in being pessimistic about it already though. Go for it and believe you're the right person for the role and in with a good shot or don't go for it at all.

CafeTherapy · 22/11/2021 22:14

I chose to take 3 months leave twice and went back full time. They arranged for a spare room for me to express milk and shorter hours.

Try and think from an employer's perspective before playing the discrimination card. They have a business to run.

afrikat · 22/11/2021 22:15

I got promoted 4 weeks before I started a 10 month mat leave. They got a mat cover
Apply!

FrazzledCareerWoman · 22/11/2021 22:26

[quote Jujujuly]@FrazzledCareerWoman you said something along the lines of it’s not the employer’s fault
if someone chooses to take the year and let their spouse go back to work, ie you imply that any negative consequences for that decision are not the employer’s “fault” but merely reflect the parent on leave’s “choice”. Is that not what you meant? Do you think people who take 12 months of leave should be penalised at work?[/quote]
Not my choice of words, to be honest I would have phrased that part differently. I was quoting someone else - who broadly was making a very good point about what happens when someone takes 12 months out of their career and the continues to have their career come second to their partners. And that person usually happens to be female. Not a coincidence

FrazzledCareerWoman · 22/11/2021 22:37

I couldn't quote properly as it was already in a quote and forgot to add quote marks at the end. No I don't think someone should be discriminated against for having time off work to have kids. It's necessary for our society. It just annoys me that it falls so disproportionately on women. Plus if you have several 1yr long mat leaves close together - that's a long time away from the workplace and it would be frankly ridiculous to suggest that it doesn't matter at all, even in the short /medium term. Even if your employer is not discriminating. My employer is amazingly supportive & I've seen several women go off for a year and come back a few times to the same role and good pay but it's not the stage in their career where they are moving fast up the ladder. OP is in a great situation here & hats off to her.

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 22:53

[quote Jujujuly]@FrazzledCareerWoman you said something along the lines of it’s not the employer’s fault
if someone chooses to take the year and let their spouse go back to work, ie you imply that any negative consequences for that decision are not the employer’s “fault” but merely reflect the parent on leave’s “choice”. Is that not what you meant? Do you think people who take 12 months of leave should be penalised at work?[/quote]
What do you mean by penalised though?
Being demoted, made redundant etc is clearly unfair.

Being promoted? Performance based bonuses? Not so clear. People should be allowed to apply

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 22:56

*apply.
But that doesn’t mean that the one year away from the workplace doesn’t count! A lot can happen in a year.
I’ve seen teams get given a major project that in a year gets every member far more experience. If someone wasn’t there because they’re on mat leave they won’t benefit. And If someone goes for two mat leaves close to each other then they’ve essentially been away for 2 years.
it’s silly to pretend that In every situation 2 years of mat leave won’t set you back.the difference is it shouldn’t set you back by MORE than the period of mat leave

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 03:38

@spotcheck she and her husband chose to structure her maternity leaves this way, IE she would do all the hard work and prejudice her career. Her husband isn't facing these dilemmas because he and OP decided she should shoulder all the burden. OP's employer can't be responsible for the way OP and husband organise their family planning and parenting.

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 03:58

And OP I am aware your husband is self employed and it makes financial sense for your family to do it this way but you need to accept on this occasion that your circumstances are nothing to do with society or your employer and everything to do with your choices, your husband's choice of career, your understandable desire to put family finances ahead of your career. Your post cries wolf about structural inequalities when it has zero to do with that. You haven't even applied for the job and you're already looking for people to blame if you don't get it

JennyForeigner · 23/11/2021 04:14

Why should you wait? If you are the right candidate you will be delivering at a higher level for them for the rest of your career.

Apply, don't even begin to get into a conversation about return dates - that would be sex discrimination from them to try - and then separately make your decision about when you return.

Original poster

MiniPumpkin · 23/11/2021 06:27

@Dexy007 can you please advise then if my husband will be able to take shared leave ? He is not self employed he took a temporary contract as he was unhappy and I value his happiness so supported him in this decision. Yes that was a risk, and still is a risk. But I don’t believe he would be entitled to shared leave . I am the higher earner even on mat pay.. so on shared leave is he going to get the same conditions? I think it’s a bit unfair to say I am putting family finances ahead of my own career, I couldn’t have predicted a promotion would come up now and oh there’s just a mortgage to pay, mouths to feed. It’s not as simple as choosing one thing and it will all work out.

OP posts:

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 06:57

Sorry OP I thought you said self-employed, I misremembered. I don't know what your husband is entitled to, at my firm temporary staff are entitled to pro rata parental leave. Maybe that's generous, I've no idea if that's market or not.

Doesn't the point still stand though - is it really society or your employer's fault that your husband needed to change job?

I didn't say prioritising finances was a bad thing, I acknowledged it was entirely understandable. If I had a choice between better salary or better prospects I'd choose the former, unless the latter was guaranteed to give me better earnings in the short term. But anyway.

All I am saying, in summary, is that if I had two women on my team going for promotion and both had had two mat leaves but one of them came back after 6 months both times and the other came back after 12 months both times I'd pick the one who'd returned to work sooner every time, hands down.

SpinsForGin · 23/11/2021 07:11

All I am saying, in summary, is that if I had two women on my team going for promotion and both had had two mat leaves but one of them came back after 6 months both times and the other came back after 12 months both times I'd pick the one who'd returned to work sooner every time, hands down.

That would still be discrimination.

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 07:17

I'll take your word for it!

Are we pretending discrimination doesn't happen? Sorry I missed the bit where we were all told to naively assume every UK employer upholds the spirit and the letter of the law at all times and never finds reasons to reject candidates but leave a clean paper trail.

Better to have a honest conversation about how some people view these things than pretend there isn't a balance to be struck in the struggle to have it all. If you put family first 100% of the time your employer is never going to put you first 100% of the time.

SpinsForGin · 23/11/2021 07:38

I'll take your word for it!

It's not my word. It's the Equality Act 2010.

Are we pretending discrimination doesn't happen? Sorry I missed the bit where we were all told to naively assume every UK employer upholds the spirit and the letter of the law at all times and never finds reasons to reject candidates but leave a clean paper trail.
Just because it happens doesn't make it right. If an employer is discriminating against any group of people, be that directly or indirectly, then this needs to be challenged and reported.
Obviously it's not always overt and organisations will often find ways to discriminate but that doesn't make it right.

Better to have a honest conversation about how some people view these things than pretend there isn't a balance to be struck in the struggle to have it all. If you put family first 100% of the time your employer is never going to put you first 100% of the time.
Your honest conversation is clear discrimination though.
You're also making some huge assumptions. Just because someone has taken their full entitlement of maternity leave that doesn't mean they aren't a dedicated, committed and reliable employee. YOU don't know the details.
There are many reasons why a woman takes the full 12 months (which they are entitled to) many of which could be structural or based around societal expectations..... which is why it is unlawful to discriminate against people based on sexual, pregnancy or maternity.

For example, I took 12 months mainly because I had a very traumatic birth and it took me most of that time to recover. If I had gone back early I wouldn't have been a good employee because I wasn't physically able to do my job ( it involved a lot of driving, standing and carrying as I used to organise events). Shared parental leave didn't exist either. We missed out by 2 months. However, I'm not sure we'd have been able to afford it anyway as DH earns so much more than me.
None of that has anything to do with how I perform as an employee now.

You seem strangely proud of the fact you discriminate against women for having the audacity to have children. I really hope you have nothing to do with recruiting staff.

Twizbe · 23/11/2021 07:47

@Dexy007 wtf? God I'd hate to work for you. I suppose you expect male employees to never take their full annual leave allowance either? Or is it just women that shouldn't take their legally entitled lease?

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 08:02

Of course they can take the full year, and men can take a full year too. But if I had an employee who thought my work was less important than their spouse's I'd be displeased. Do you want me to pretend otherwise?

Muchadobird · 23/11/2021 08:02

Not read the full thread but YABU because:

You haven’t even applied so right now aren’t in the running to get a job offer
You are making some huge assumptions about your employer (when they may just offer to the best candidate which is in their best interest)
Shared parental leave means both you and the baby’s father/other parent are entitled to parental leave so you have options and choices to make about how much time you personally take away from your career

For what it is worth, I have recruited people about to go on mat leave and I have been treated well during my mat leaves. I chose to share the leave with my partner as that worked out best for both our careers and our children. I think your views OP are quite outdated.

Dexy007 · 23/11/2021 08:07

Great Spins, I've already told you I believe you?

You've kind of just undermined your point there by conceeding no particular thought was given in your household to how you'd split the leave. You hadn't worked out if it was financially viable even if you hadn't needed the 12 months off.

I'm only being honest about my views. I really don't care if people don't like them. I just don't see the sense in 100 people telling the OP what her rights are when we all know it doesn't always work that way in practice.

Anyway guys sorry I'm out, I get the rage every time I see women having children with men that won't do the hard yards and then acting surprised when it disadvantages them. I'll wind my neck in

SpinsForGin · 23/11/2021 08:10

@Dexy007

Of course they can take the full year, and men can take a full year too. But if I had an employee who thought my work was less important than their spouse's I'd be displeased. Do you want me to pretend otherwise?

But why does taking the maternity leave you are entitled to mean you are valuing your spouses work above yours?I took 12 months for the reasons explained but as soon as I returned to work I was dedicated to my job. DH has always done his share of school drop Offs, sick days, plays, assemblies etc.

It's grossly unfair to punish women for taking the maternity leave they are legally entitled to. And it's also unfair to judge someone's performance based on the amount of mat leave they took.

SpinsForGin · 23/11/2021 08:15

You've kind of just undermined your point there by conceeding no particular thought was given in your household to how you'd split the leave. You hadn't worked out if it was financially viable even if you hadn't needed the 12 months off.

It wasn't available to us as it didn't exist!!! We missed out by 2 months.
If we had a second child I would want DH to take some of the leave but we would need to save significantly beforehand to enable us to accommodate the drop in salary. Not every family can do that.

SpinsForGin · 23/11/2021 08:18

Anyway guys sorry I'm out, I get the rage every time I see women having children with men that won't do the hard yards and then acting surprised when it disadvantages them. I'll wind my neck in

Why are you assuming that women who take maternity leave have partners that don't contribute to parenting? You're refusing to look beyond this point which is irrelevant.

linerforlife · 23/11/2021 08:21

Don't lose faith. A promotion was held for me for a year of mat leave. Apply. If you were a man would you think oh I won't apply as they won't give it to me? No. Apply. Interview. Slay 💁🏻‍♀️ Get the promotion. Have a lovely mat leave. Kick arse on your return. That's how it's done baby!!

wtaf37 · 23/11/2021 08:51

" I want, I want, I want, I want..."

How much more perspective do you need?

JennyForeigner · 23/11/2021 09:15

@wtaf37

" I want, I want, I want, I want..."

How much more perspective do you need?

I don't think you've understood the concept of a comments board.