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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to want my mat leave plus promotion

299 replies

MiniPumpkin · 21/11/2021 21:04

Need to post this to get some perspective or give my head a wobble.. whatever you all think ..
So been with large organisation for 10 years, promoted posts are few and far between, to put into context it has come up three times in the 10 years I’ve been there, including during my mat leave with dc1. Now on mat leave with dc2 it’s come up again. I want the job, always have and I’m pretty career driven but of course I also want my mat leave to continue. I want what I am entitled to which is my entire maternity leave. And I want promotion. If I get it they will want me back early.
I’m just sick of well, being female ? Woman’s careers are so disadvantaged if you ask me, I turned down a job (with another organisation) when ttc with dc1 as I wouldn’t get as good mat leave pay.. then of course you can’t go anywhere/leave when pregnant as you will lose the maternity pay. Now I feel I want this job but feel I will just be discriminated against, I wont get it as they will just say I didn’t do as well because they will no doubt prefer to give it to someone not on mat leave.
Not even sure of point in this post, I need somewhere to vent and get perspective. I feel like saying stuff it and just wait till my mat leave is over but who knows when the next opportunity will be and it really annoys me…

OP posts:
spudjulia · 22/11/2021 10:04

@PinkWednesdays

In my performance review they said I could only have a low score as I had not worked the full year

Isn’t that discrimination?

It absolutely is. Maternity leave is protected as continuous service. It should be treated as if you were at work for all things employment related. And people might disagree with this, but it's the law.
sillysmiles · 22/11/2021 10:10

@Rangoon

It's probably churlish of me but I got no maternity pay, worked up to 39 weeks and was back at work 6 weeks after a c-seaction and did it twice so it's hard for me to see you as hard done by.
Where are you based?
Stompythedinosaur · 22/11/2021 10:13

I've just offered a promotion to someone who is on maternity leave. You aren't legally about to discriminate because someone is on maternity!

Some terrible attitudes on this thread.

sillysmiles · 22/11/2021 10:18

@MiniPumpkin Apply for it. Remember the company is only a company if you died in the morning, they'd just replace you. Apply and try to get the best deal for you.

Herewegoagain84 · 22/11/2021 10:23

@Stompythedinosaur I completely agree. I’ve actually found it quite shocking.

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 10:32

[quote spudjulia]@TractorAndHeadphones
Here you go...

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/managing-pregnancy-and-maternity-workplace/during-maternity-leave-pay-promotion-breaks-and-benefits[/quote]
It doesn't say that an employer legally has to inform anybody. It only says that if the maternity cover has been promoted it may be discrimination.
Whether it actually is depends on the circumstances of promotion. If it was for the work temp had done while being cover - clearly discrimination. If temp had applied for a different role then it's not. Unless you're saying that it's somebody's job to scour an internal job database and send people on mat leave key listings.

Even the change in job role . Discrimination if responsibilities have been removed because of maternity leave. I take this to mean - if you were a team lead for example your role should continue to be as such.
However if the entire team has been reorganised (as happens where I work, 3 re-orgs over 5 months) and you're now managing 3 people instead of 5 , or responsible for different products it's not quite discrimination. Unless you're the ONLY one who has had their role changed.

Also R.E continuous service. Where I work the last performance rating before mat leave is used and that entitles people on mat leave to the same bonuses etc. However for an in-role promotion is based on work done in a specific cycle for ALL employees. If people are promoted in Dec based on work done July - Dec ; but someone was on mat leave in January and not involved on what basis are they supposed to be promoted?

It's all very nuanced

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 10:34

@Stompythedinosaur

I've just offered a promotion to someone who is on maternity leave. You aren't legally about to discriminate because someone is on maternity!

Some terrible attitudes on this thread.

Yes.. people are like 'I went straight back to work so should you'. Child labour was previously socially accepted, just because they suffered as children does that mean our children shpuld to. Ridiculous argument
Dishwashersaurous · 22/11/2021 10:44
  1. Apply for job.
  1. Interview for job.
  1. Be offered job.
  1. Discuss start dates. If a mutual agreement on start date cannot be reached then don't accept job.
AudacityBaby · 22/11/2021 10:44

I've seen it work the other way. My workplace recently advertised promotion vacancies which required 6 years post-qualification experience due to the nature of the role. Several of my colleagues weren't able to apply as they just missed out, having only 5.5 years or what have you. 3 of the roles went to women who'd been qualified for 6 or 7 years, but had had 2 or 3 year-long mat leaves in that time, so in actuality had around 3 or 4 years post-qualification experience. I thought that was really unfair. I know that mat leave has to count as continuous service, so I have no issue with that, but if someone with 5.5 years of qualified experience can't apply but someone with almost half that can get the job, something's gone wrong somewhere.

ElftonWednesday · 22/11/2021 10:47

I though it was actually against the law for an employer not to offer the same opportunities to staff on Mat leave as staff currently in the office. Surely it's sex discrimination.

mightbeyesmightbeno · 22/11/2021 10:50

@MiniPumpkin I actually received an email on the first day of my May leave congratulating me on my promotion. I was the best person for the job and so they gave it to me regardless of mat leave. I was then off for 9 months Mat leave and returned to a new post.

If you want it, go for it.

ElftonWednesday · 22/11/2021 10:50

@AudacityBaby

I've seen it work the other way. My workplace recently advertised promotion vacancies which required 6 years post-qualification experience due to the nature of the role. Several of my colleagues weren't able to apply as they just missed out, having only 5.5 years or what have you. 3 of the roles went to women who'd been qualified for 6 or 7 years, but had had 2 or 3 year-long mat leaves in that time, so in actuality had around 3 or 4 years post-qualification experience. I thought that was really unfair. I know that mat leave has to count as continuous service, so I have no issue with that, but if someone with 5.5 years of qualified experience can't apply but someone with almost half that can get the job, something's gone wrong somewhere.
They should offer the job to the person who has enough quality experience to do the job. It's quality not quantity. Years of experience should always be approximate. Some people trudge along for years becoming complacent and others are constantly learning, training and gaining new experiences. Often those people are women who have had children.
AvocadoOrange · 22/11/2021 10:54

Apply for the job and if you are offered it then you can discuss when to start. Terrible attitudes on this thread.

AudacityBaby · 22/11/2021 10:54

others are constantly learning, training and gaining new experiences. Often those people are women who have had children.

Do you have any evidence for this?

3luckystars · 22/11/2021 10:56

Apply anyway. See what happens. Good luck.

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 11:03

@AudacityBaby

I've seen it work the other way. My workplace recently advertised promotion vacancies which required 6 years post-qualification experience due to the nature of the role. Several of my colleagues weren't able to apply as they just missed out, having only 5.5 years or what have you. 3 of the roles went to women who'd been qualified for 6 or 7 years, but had had 2 or 3 year-long mat leaves in that time, so in actuality had around 3 or 4 years post-qualification experience. I thought that was really unfair. I know that mat leave has to count as continuous service, so I have no issue with that, but if someone with 5.5 years of qualified experience can't apply but someone with almost half that can get the job, something's gone wrong somewhere.
So someone with 3-4 years experience could do the job, this is the hiring manager's fault for specifying an arbitrary number! Mat leave counting as continuous service is fair enough for things that rely solely on years worked (e.g. annual leave /cost of living payrises). It isn't relevant for other things where it's the work done rather than years that count.

In the example I gave before. Job role demotion not allowed but what about changes?

saleorbouy · 22/11/2021 11:04

BonesInTheOcean
Women don't have to suffer in the workplace there are provisions in place for paternity leave and shared leave.

Rumplestrumpet · 22/11/2021 11:08

Such sexist nonsense on this thread! "Your choice to have babies so suffer the consequences" Shock Thankfully we have legal protection against maternity discrimination now, though no doubt many of the women on this thread are employers or managers who would happily break the law. How depressing.

OP - I applied for promotion on return from my first maternity leave and got it. I was on temporary promotion when I went on my second maternity leave and others had their promotion made permanent while I was out. Mine was not, despite high performance in the year prior. So I complained to HR, cited maternity discrimination, and the error was corrected. My promotion is now permanent and I'm bloody good at my job.

You don't have to return earlier from maternity leave - just because some people returned to work moments after the cord was cut doesn't mean you have to. Enjoy and exercise your rights. Apply for the promotion, don't miss this opportunity, and if you get it you can stand your ground on start date if you so choose. If they're a big organisation they will not want to fall foul of the law on this.

AudacityBaby · 22/11/2021 11:11

@tractorandheadphones I agree, but it's really common in professions to have a PQE-requirement. It's supposed to recognise that those who've been practising longer will have been exposed to more complex issues and without supervision. Someone who has 7 years PQE but has only been in the office for 3 years will have less exposure to those things than someone who has 5 years PQE but has been there that entire time. That's the problem.

AudacityBaby · 22/11/2021 11:13

(And there's no argument that the 'better' candidate won out, here, because the person with 5 years PQE couldn't apply.)

IglesiasPiggl · 22/11/2021 11:13

A friend of mine who is a high flyer was offered a promotion whilst on mat leave, but was required to come back earlier in order to take it. It was a fantastic opportunity for them as a family so her husband took three months sabbatical to cover the time with their baby. Would that be an option for you?

TractorAndHeadphones · 22/11/2021 11:15

[quote AudacityBaby]**@tractorandheadphones* I agree, but it's really common in professions to have a PQE-requirement. It's supposed to recognise that those who've been practising longer will have been exposed to more complex issues and without supervision. Someone who has 7 years PQE but has only been in the office for 3 years will have less* exposure to those things than someone who has 5 years PQE but has been there that entire time. That's the problem.[/quote]
But in that case a part-timer will have less experience - if it's really necessary isn't there some other way of determining it e.g. billable hours? Can't the complexity of cases be used as a benchmark?

Also why were these women promoted if they're up to doing the job? If they are then it has to be acknowlegde that the year requirement doesn't make sense and should be changed anyway.

This is a separate issue from mat leave

AudacityBaby · 22/11/2021 11:24

@tractorandheadphones My issue is less that they were promoted (as you say, they got the jobs), it's that people with more experience than they had weren't permitted to apply. To be on equal footing with someone who actually only had 4 years PQE, those who hadn't taken maternity leave would have to have the full 6 years PQE. I agree that it's an issue with the PQE requirement, but I don't think it's acceptable.

Original poster
MiniPumpkin · 22/11/2021 11:43

Hi everyone,
So overwhelmed with all the responses, some pretty depressing views that have come through but also some really positive stories so thanks to those who have rightly pointed out I should be more positive.
This is an internal role, it never goes external as it’s usually around 100 applications they get. It is very competitive and some of you were asking if I applied previously. I applied when off on ML with dc1, i the interview was an absolute car crash as I had no idea what to expect. Second time I applied I was in work, and they told me I had come second and done very well, so I do feel I have the potential to up my game and have a chance of being the top candidate. Closing date is next Friday and then it’s 4 weeks notice. I am
On month 5 of 9 into my mat leave.
Someone had questioned whether I ‘deserve’ promotion given that I stayed with the organisation for maternity benefits. Yes I did stay for the benefits but it’s also a great company who have given me many opportunities I wouldn’t have got elsewhere and I would like to keep these skills in the company that taught me them. It would be a shame to go.
Re the shared leave, I’m not sure we would be eligible? Dh took a new role (temporary contract) as he was unhappy in his job and I supported his decision to take the risk in a temp job. But honestly if he could get shared leave I’d love that ! I’m also the higher earner and get 75% of my wage on mat leave.. I’m not sure he would get the same ?
Hiring manager is calling me today to have a chat, I will ask whether they would require me back.. but as someone else said it may be better to just go for it and see what happens..

OP posts: