Compulsory Vaccine - What does it mean?

[WheresYourIndicator]

Sorry for posting in AIBU but I know most traffic is here.

So reading the latest news headlines, Austria and Germany are making vaccines compulsory.

Can someone explain what this actually means? What are the consequences if someone refuses to be vaccinated. I appreciate I may sound thick here so I apologise in advance.

I am double vaccinated myself and will be booking my booster for January but I strongly disagree with people being forced to take something they don't want. Surely it sets a precedent for the future. What will the government try to force next?
Scary times ahead!

@samthebordercollie

You don't know how lucky you are in the UK. You have twice the infections daily and 5 x the Covid related deaths that we have in France, no social distancing, no vaccine passport and your PM doesn't give a shit. Is Europe panicking or is the natural immunity being built up in the UK the best way to go?

We are lucky because we have 5 times the Covid19 deaths? Are you aware of what you've typed here?

The unvaccinated are playing Russian roulette with their lives but it's a choice and we should respect it. Those of us who are double vaccinated have nothing to fear.

Unless we need a transplant op and can't have it because there are no icu beds of course. A few months ago I needed emergency surgery and was in ICU with sepsis. I dread to think what would happen now. Oh wait I know exactly what would happen because the same situation happened to someone I know a few weeks ago, needed an op, got sepsis. Got no treatment for sepsis for 48hrs just left on a trolley, the only reason they got care is because they checked themselves into a private hospital. Luckily for them they had the funds to do that. I would probably be dead.

I do think the obesity thing is a red herring

It's not a red herring in the context of posts like this though...

But they are still more likely to need hospital treatment than a vaccinated person of the same age and health.

The CDCs study on 150,000 patients who were hospitalised showed 80% of them were overweight or obese.

We're blaming a certain cohort now for taking up beds but this has been the case throughout the pandemic.

I'll state that I really, really do not care what other people do with their bodies - smoke, drink, deliberately overeat, that's your prerogative. But we can't just start sectioning off members of society and treating them like second class citizens. It's not right.

Everyone is looking for someone to blame but the truth is it's a virus. Best to worry about yourself imo.

If it wasn't for the people who are going to need emergency healthcare this winter for unrelated illnesses, I would say let it rip. We have had two hard lockdowns here in South Germany and we put up with it because it was the only way we could protect the vulnerable. But now we have the vaccine, we shouldn't need to. I'm not seeing my kids back under bloody house arrest, learning shit German off their English speaking mother again, just because there are people out there who could have the vaccine but are too selfish to do so.
Here in Germany the tendency is always to place a high value on the freedom and privacy of the individual, not least because of the history- the Nazis, and then the Stasi in the east. But I sense that the national mood is changing, and while I don't think we will end up with impflicht (for corona - the kids already have to be vaccinated against measles to go to school) I do expect that the unvaccinated will be more and more excluded from normal life.

@Mynameismargot
Yet two years ago you probably didnt give a shit about the number of emergency beds taken up by binge drinkers and drunken accident cases.

And that is exactly why the NHS must treat everyone. No discrimination at all. Peoples lives are complex

And that is what the NHS is trying to do, but it is stretched resource wise and will be even more so over the next few months as we enter the season of usual Winter pressures.
Even before covid this was the case, but people rarely ask why ? Why is the NHS running at a unsafe bed capacity level for a quarter of the year ? What impact does that have on patient care during those months and the knock on effect that has when routine treatment has to be cancelled ?
Why were there limited beds or social care packages available for those people who are medically fit to be discharged but were unsafe to be discharged home by themselves pre pandemic ?
None of these issues are new.

[quote alienbaby]@Mynameismargot
Yet two years ago you probably didnt give a shit about the number of emergency beds taken up by binge drinkers and drunken accident cases.[/quote]
There were beds there then, people weren't being denied treatment. I'm not sure what your point is really?

@Mynameismargot I was left on a trolley in 2014 and almost died because of it. Not sepsis but similarly life threatening situation that could have easily been prevented if I'd been seen quicker by the GP and taken to hospital earlier and not left in a corridor because they were rammed.

Why are people acting like this has never been a thing in the NHS until now?

Were you just not paying attention...?

It's shocking but covid is just exposing the problems that so many people have been experiencing for years. I'm trying to think of a single time anyone I know has had a good, quick, efficient, etc experience of the NHS and I can't. Waiting lists of 2 years, no GP appointments, being sent to the other side of the country for surgery, hours waiting on ambulances, post-natal care you wouldn't give to your dog.......

@Mynameismargot
You need to do some more thinking

The chances of getting severe Covid or death are not 32% higher but 32 times higher. A massive difference.

I had a needle phobia until I got a life threatening disease, and I quickly realised how ridiculous I had been.

It is very well documented that obesity is a huge risk factor for taking an ICU bed

Some estimates are as high as 78% of hospitalisations see here

It’s strange that we don’t see that in the same way that we do unvaccinated people because yes, there may be some people who have medication related weight gain, but I am very sure the 67% of adults in the uk who are overweight / obese are not fat because of that. It’s poor eating, junk food for the most part…a choice, exactly the same as being unvaccinated
The only people I know who aren’t vaccinated are extremely fit people who have almost zero change of being hospitalised.
If you are obese and unvaccinated, that’s doubly dumb.

@Cheerychirpy

The chances of getting severe Covid or death are not 32% higher but 32 times higher. A massive difference.

I had a needle phobia until I got a life threatening disease, and I quickly realised how ridiculous I had been.

Yes, you obviously speak for everyone with a needle phobia. So we should all bow down to you, not.

A question: I am hearing about all sorts of people who are having to go private for operations and procedures both big and small. Today I spoke to someone who has an Aunt in her nineties who is having to go private to get her EARS SYRINGED. The doctor won't do it 'because of Covid'. So , how come the doctors in private hospitals are still working? How come they are prepared to treat people? Also what about A and E staff who are dealing with the brunt of people who doctors refuse to see? Doctors are paid to DO A JOB. Just deciding not to do their job 'because of Covid' is beyond ridiculous. It makes my blood boil.

Also there is quite a bit of research showing that the vaccine is less effective for obese people

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/28/pfizer-vaccine-less-effective-obesity-study

Another reason why obesity cannot be removed from the conversation of our motives are around maintaining health services

The CDCs study on 150,000 patients who were hospitalised showed 80% of them were overweight or obese.

I can believe that, were they also old ? because the narrative in the covid denying/anti vaxx community has been that only the very old have been hospitalised with covid, which always confuses me, because I meet very few very fat old people, appetite levels tend to decrease with age, obviously there are the outliers, but I suppose 'old' and 'fat' are terms that are open to interpretation.

All covid deaths in Ireland in the past week or either fully or partly vaccinated, according to latest figures from HPSC.

I’d just like to leave this here, as I fear many posters are getting their stats and info from FB pages:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

AJGranny

"We are lucky because we have 5 times the Covid19 deaths?
Are you aware of what you've typed here?"

I think samthebordercollie was being ironic.

@user1471443411

All covid deaths in Ireland in the past week or either fully or partly vaccinated, according to latest figures from HPSC.

And? That doesn't change the fact that unvaccinated people are disproportionately taking up ICU beds.

But not 32 times more likely to die, then?

[quote jailby]@Mynameismargot I was left on a trolley in 2014 and almost died because of it. Not sepsis but similarly life threatening situation that could have easily been prevented if I'd been seen quicker by the GP and taken to hospital earlier and not left in a corridor because they were rammed.

Why are people acting like this has never been a thing in the NHS until now?

Were you just not paying attention...?

It's shocking but covid is just exposing the problems that so many people have been experiencing for years. I'm trying to think of a single time anyone I know has had a good, quick, efficient, etc experience of the NHS and I can't. Waiting lists of 2 years, no GP appointments, being sent to the other side of the country for surgery, hours waiting on ambulances, post-natal care you wouldn't give to your dog....... [/quote]
I'm not in the UK. I can see a GP same day where I live, within a few hours if it is out of hours. I was given extremely swift care when I needed it in August, I was on a ward being treated within 2 hours of presenting in A&E.

Our health service here is far, far from perfect but that doesn't change the fact that right now, in the middle of a pandemic people who are choosing not to be vaccinated are putting a huge unnecessary strain on an already imperfect health service. Rather than take an hour out of their day to get vaccinated they are taking up on average 10days in an ICU once admitted there.

The CDCs study on 150,000 patients who were hospitalised showed 80% of them were overweight or obese

The other thing I would say is how did the study define 'overweight' because you could be overweight by 5 pounds according to the NHS BMI calculator and it not have any significant impact on your health, its the average amount of weight people tend to put on over Christmas or after a holiday, a couple of days of normal eating and a couple of decent bowel movements and you are back in range, which is quite different to being 10 stone overweight and clinically obese.

@user1471443411

But not 32 times more likely to die, then?

What makes you say that? If all of the deaths were vaccinated eldery/ immune suppressed people/ very ill people which is what we are being told they are what makes you think an unvaccinated elderly/immune-suppressed/ very ill person would fare better?

I am 100% pro vaccine but this is so wrong. Can't see any healthcare professional would give a vaccine without informed consent... This is very troubling

@frumpety when he told me, I assumed another unvaccinated person but actually I don’t think it matters. If you had the vaccination and we’re offered a grand to have another, you might consider it.