Compulsory Vaccine - What does it mean?

[WheresYourIndicator]

Sorry for posting in AIBU but I know most traffic is here.

So reading the latest news headlines, Austria and Germany are making vaccines compulsory.

Can someone explain what this actually means? What are the consequences if someone refuses to be vaccinated. I appreciate I may sound thick here so I apologise in advance.

I am double vaccinated myself and will be booking my booster for January but I strongly disagree with people being forced to take something they don't want. Surely it sets a precedent for the future. What will the government try to force next?
Scary times ahead!

@Cheerychirpy

If you are in ICU with Covid and haven’t had a vaccine when you have been offered one, you are blocking it! Other people who have taken every opportunity NOT to get severely ill from Covid might need that bed.

Have they tried to lose weight if they’re obese? And made sure they exercise and have a good healthy diet? I guess we could allow it if they’ve done their utmost.

Have they tried to lose weight if they’re obese? And made sure they exercise and have a good healthy diet? I guess we could allow it if they’ve done their utmost

Because people in poverty can do this so easily. And people on mental health drugs don’t ever struggle with side effects of overeating.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

ICU blocking is when there are no ICU beds available. Even though they are needed. They are blocked by other ill patients.

No, bed blocking in the NHS means someone who is fit to go home, but they might not have the support at home to go there yet. A classic example would be someone with dementia who is waiting for a care home place. This happens in the UK all the time yet there is not an uproar about it. Why is that?

There are many reasons for obesity though. Many, complex reasons. Reasons for getting the vaccine are much more simple.

There are many reasons for obesity though. Many, complex reasons. Reasons for getting the vaccine are much more simple.

You’re wrong. There are extremely complex reasons as to why people are not getting vaccinated.

@Cheerychirpy

There are many reasons for obesity though. Many, complex reasons. Reasons for getting the vaccine are much more simple.

But they’re still more likely to be taking up beds in hospital, including in the covid ward, than healthy non vaccinated people. Or non vaccinated people who’ve recovered from covid.

@Cheerychirpy

There are many reasons for obesity though. Many, complex reasons. Reasons for getting the vaccine are much more simple.

Come on, list the reasons for obesity.

The only reason I can think of for not getting the vaccine is if your Dr tells you it is unsuitable for you.

@olivehater

I’d like to bill people that aren’t vaccinated and use the nhs for treatment ( children not included). I believe in free choice. Hate the idea of anything compulsory. Am against nhs staff being forced to have the vaccine. But also believe that choices should have consequences. But let’s be honest the people that refuse aren’t going to have any money to cover the costs of treatment,

So it's only the 'poor' that aren't vaccinated?

Don't believe in refusing treatment for neither obese people nor unvaccinated. They are someone's mother, father, son, daughter. If they were ill I'd want them treated, despite their selfishness, because their loved ones may be good people and they don't deserve to suffer.

That said, let's not fly by some of the outright lies from the start of this thread. Over on the continent unvaccinated people are walking around with their freedoms in tact. They just need to wear a mask and show either recovery or a negative test to ensure the freedoms of others. That will change in Austria but it hasn't started yet and it is criticized in other German speaking media. Nobody has been arrested for being unvaccinated. Nobody has been physically forced to have a vaccination against their will.

A request to the unvaccinated: stop spreading diseases and stop spreading lies

Obesity is an outcome of many medical conditions.

@Cheerychirpy

The only reason I can think of for not getting the vaccine is if your Dr tells you it is unsuitable for you.

So simple. How about... health anxiety, side effects from the previous jab, needle phobia, faith in their own immune system, or just NO because 'no' is a whole sentence... surely you would teach your daughters that too.

@XenoBitch
I am obese because I took a drug to get a medical condition under control. A relatively new drug which I read had a high risk of cancer. My consultant assured me the risk was miniscule. I took the drug, I got cancer. The treatment put me into early menopause and the steroids massive weight gain. 5 years later I continue with long term effects of the cancer treatment. One of these effects reduces my mobility dramatically so I can't exercise properly. I eat normally and I have a sedentary office job. I walk my dogs daily as far as I can. I do couch exercises too. I'm still obese. That's my story.

[quote Mantlemoose]@XenoBitch
I am obese because I took a drug to get a medical condition under control. A relatively new drug which I read had a high risk of cancer. My consultant assured me the risk was miniscule. I took the drug, I got cancer. The treatment put me into early menopause and the steroids massive weight gain. 5 years later I continue with long term effects of the cancer treatment. One of these effects reduces my mobility dramatically so I can't exercise properly. I eat normally and I have a sedentary office job. I walk my dogs daily as far as I can. I do couch exercises too. I'm still obese. That's my story.[/quote]
I am obese because of antipsychotic medication. If I did not take them,, I would be a further drain on the NHS.

A request to the unvaccinated: stop spreading diseases and stop spreading lies

I am unvaccinated, and not spreading any disease at all. I am also not spreading any lies.

Obesity is an outcome of many medical conditions.

And if you read my post where I first mentioned this, you’ll see I wrote overweight/obese
(due to overeating) of similar.

Much obesity is caused by unhealthy lifestyles.

@Dentistlakes

I’m pro vaccine but the idea of people being forced to be vaccinated gives me the chills. It will set a precedent for other things to be made compulsory and perhaps the removal of healthcare for other reasons (e.g lifestyle choices). Very worrying.

Same

Young unvaccinated people are still at lower risk of needing to go to hospital than some older vaccinated people.

But they are still more likely to need hospital treatment than a vaccinated person of the same age and health.

I just saw the stats there for covid icu beds in Ireland in October. 67% of patients were unvaccined, 3% partly vaccinated. That is 7 out of 10 people in covid ICU beds are not vaccinated. That 67% of patients come from the 7% of our adult population that aren't vaccinated. I'm no mathematician but those figures are shocking and completely avoidable by a free, easy to access vaccine. That strain that is being put on our health service that means that other peoples surgeries are being cancelled is down to the people that have chosen, for whatever reason they may have chosen, not to be vaccinated.

I do think the obesity thing is a red herring, I am obese, although losing weight, because I work in healthcare and know that being obese potentially puts me at greater risk of complications, I have had all my vaccines. I haven't had covid yet despite looking after people who were symptomatically unwell with it.
Being obese isn't good for any of the systems in your body, it puts pressure on all of them, losing weight will be appreciated by all those various body systems, absolutely no doubt about that. The respiratory and vascular systems are particulary effected by covid and are already under significant strain if you are obese.
But health isn't as easy as obese = ill health and slim = good health, there are a myriad of factors that effect peoples health. Education, so knowing how to recognise worrying symptoms and knowing who to contact should you experience them, Social issues, so not being embarrassed by worrying symptoms and seeking help, Environmental issues, breathing in toxic car fumes is not good for your respiratory health, neither is living in damp conditions, Genetics, some people are dealt a shitty deal and no amount of healthy living is going to change that, Age , lets be honest the older your body gets the more likely it is to malfunction, stuff does simply wear out over time and cells can randomly end up dividing in malignant ways.
Obesity is one of the reasons people might become unwell with covid, but not the only reason.

Not that I agree with fines or charging for treatment for anyone above paying their tax. It’s absurd. I was just making a point.

But they are still more likely to need hospital treatment than a vaccinated person of the same age and health.

Yes, I totally agree but if you look at what I was responding to, you’ll see it needed pointing out.

I don't think some of these figures being quoted add up. Someone said you were 32% more likely to die of covid if unvaccinated? And ICUs were full of the unvaccinated. This may have been true months ago, when hardly anyone was classed as fully vaccinated, but I don't see how it can be true now.
For example, Waterford in Ireland. 100% of adults are vaccinated. Are the ICUs all full of children?
The rates per 100000 are presumably higher amongst the unvaccinated but I don't see how the absolute numbers can be. Fullfact did a fact check about this fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

there are a myriad of factors that effect peoples health.

And that is exactly why the NHS must treat everyone. No discrimination at all. Peoples lives are complex.

If we accept a drain on the state’s finances is a good enough reason to overrule body autonomy, do we accept forced abortion for those who cannot to keep the child, or perhaps forced sterilisation of persons on benefits? Perhaps euthanasia of persons who cannot pay care home fees? Do we make smear tests mandatory, fine or refuse treatment to those who won’t have them?
What happened to my body, my choice? Mandatory tattooing of the unvaxxed? Where does it end?

It cannot be that the vaccinated feel at risk of catching the virus, so it can only be that certain people are prepared to see another human’s bodily autonomy forcibly violated....because of money.

This is so incredibly fucked up. Of course we cant tell people what to do with their own bodies.

What if we enforced abortion past the first child on the basis that any more is harmful to society and the planet?

The unvaccinated are playing Russian roulette with their lives but it's a choice and we should respect it. Those of us who are double vaccinated have nothing to fear.

We are seeing an erosion of civil liberties veiled under the fig leaf of "the common good"