To invite 8 out of 13 girls from DD's class?

[Fr0thandBubble]

DD is in Y1 and she will be having a party at home (with an activity) for her birthday.

There are 13 girls in her class, and she wants to invite 8 of them - meaning that 9 girls would be at the party (including her), and 4 girls wouldn't be invited.

Is that bad? I can't decide! Don't have room for all of them so if the consensus is that it's bad I will tell her she can only invite 7 - which is a slightly better ratio of invited/not invited!

@SquarePeggyLeggy

Wholeheartedly disagree. Maybe they don’t all feel that way, but if you were the kind of child who always felt different, and wasn’t generally liked, by the age of 6, you know. You know that’s you, and this kind of thing just confirms it. Teachers never choosing you, last to teams, in the minority not invited, you know. I think if you don’t believe a child knows this feeling, you were perhaps fortunate or likeable enough to not have it happen to you repeatedly.

Totally agree. I was always left out of things, I knew I wasn't popular or cool but I didn't know why. My childhood was full of more level bullying like this and I was miserable and tried to commit suicide when I was 13. Last year I was diagnosed autistic.

I do wonder where all the #bekind is now? Of course it's not ok to leave such a small percentage of the girls out, I can't believe anyone thinks it is. But it explains a lot. Many people just aren't kind people.

Low level, not more level

@SilverThread

^^I once had a party for my daughter, invited all the girls and accidentally left one off the list, my daughter forgot, and I did too.
I was horrified after the party, and her Mum never spoke to me again^^

This is a PERFECT example. You didn't do it to exclude the girl, and the mother made it all about you purposefully excluding her! Like loads of the posters on this thread. It's very peculiar or I guess typical example of basic insecurity. Though to never speak to you again!!! I understand if you snogged her husband or something, talk about creating lifetime issues for her daughter out of nothing! She probably impressed it on her daughter, that feeling of being excluded purposefully...Though to be honest if I cared I'd have approached the mother straight away and explained the situation and maybe organised a playdate or something...

You say later your son got left out, did it occur to you after your own mistake that it might not have been intentional or had nothing to do with your son specifically?

@Cassandrainthenight

Oh my God, the children are not born with the idea that not being invited to a birthday party equals being unworthy or unpopular. You, parents, put that idea into their heads. And then they cry in their room while you falsely comfort them that it’s OK to not be invited while your heart is breaking for them.

If you couldn’t give a shit about them not being invited they wouldn’t care either!! Children(anyone really but esp. children) copy your energy and for years have to read you non verbally before they learn the language well enough. You can pretend but they follow your true feelings.

And if you want your child to have fun and feel they are not invited enough to places, then solve that problem by being the party starter. Organise parties to celebrate 6 and a half birthday or to celebrate anything you can think of, -and then your kids will have as many parties as they want to attend. Don’t make yourself and your child into such a victim.

I was the 'left out' one from an early age. Kids will say 'your not my friend' or doing a big show of the 'this is my best friend'.

Believe me, you don't need an adult to tell you this stuff, the kids are fantastic at managing it themselves.

You show up the fact that you were never in this position yourself.

All the posters who voted YABU, if you walked into a room where was a group of people you knew were expecting you, and everyone was laughing loudly the moment you walked in, and they all stopped when you walked in, I bet you would have made it all about you, that it must have been that they were laughing AT YOU, and they stopped because you caught them.

If you would have (and obviously passed the same attitude to your kids) then don't worry, you are in good company (it's a real life story which happened to young Dostoyevsky being introduced to the literary cream of society, he stormed off and never even talked to the host again! People were laughing at a funny joke when he walked in, and stopped because he was new to the company, out of politeness)

But if you would have, all it is is childhood trauma, and it can be dealt with by attending sessions with a therapist. Because it would have affected all areas of your life and is worth unpicking.

The numbers are ok as long as youre discrete. Why anyone thinks 5/6 year old boys don’t like art is a mystery. No wonder so many kids think they are trans if a little boy can’t pick up a paintbrush (let alone enjoy dancing Or a doll)

@RedToothBrush

Was in that position between ages of 8 and 11 but to be honest was bookish and was barely paying attention that I had few friends/invitations.

Moved schools at 12 and the most popular boy in the class fell for me which changed the dynamics...but one thing I'm grateful to my parents for was I knew not to measure my value by other people's expectations, and knew that a certain amount of "exclusion" and judgement would always happen in life, and it's not about me.
There's plenty of people who genuinely don't care about peaches or diamonds, for instance, and it's not that peaches are not good enough fruit or diamonds are not pretty enough...

Nobody could be themselves if they tried to be everybody's friend and it would be a miserable life.

@Cassandrainthenight

All the posters who voted YABU, if you walked into a room where was a group of people you knew were expecting you, and everyone was laughing loudly the moment you walked in, and they all stopped when you walked in, I bet you would have made it all about you, that it must have been that they were laughing AT YOU, and they stopped because you caught them.

If you would have (and obviously passed the same attitude to your kids) then don't worry, you are in good company (it's a real life story which happened to young Dostoyevsky being introduced to the literary cream of society, he stormed off and never even talked to the host again! People were laughing at a funny joke when he walked in, and stopped because he was new to the company, out of politeness)

But if you would have, all it is is childhood trauma, and it can be dealt with by attending sessions with a therapist. Because it would have affected all areas of your life and is worth unpicking.

Oh, for heavens sake! I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people who voted YABU didn't do so because they have unaddressed childhood trauma issues!

I think it’s fine. It’s not a whole class party and you can only accommodate X amount. It’s not like there’s a group of 7 that are all best friends and you’re excluding one. Even at that age I think kids understand that if your not some ones particular friend you wouldn’t be invited their small party.

I think at that age you either limit it to a really small number say 5-6 max or invite the whole class

Also to be honest if your child is continuously excluded you need to ask yourself why and not blame other parents.

There is a girl in my daughter's class who is a bully and making my daughter's life a misery to the point where she doesn't want to go to school some days. She constantly secretly pinches, scratches, kicks my daughter under the table etc, also she name calls her. As far as I know she does it to the majority of girls, to whoever is not feisty and she feels she could get away with. She only has one semi-friend, and I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't invited to birthday parties.

I had to tell the teacher a few times, but I'd never approach the parents, and to be honest I have no idea if they are at all aware that their daughter is a bully, they could well be wondering why she isn't popular...

I'm not blaming the child btw, she obviously has issues and needs help, but I'm not throwing my child under the bus and ever inviting this girl to any parties or playdates.

Another thing could be that your child is just very introverted, quiet, special needs, etc, shy, doesn't make friends easily etc. Then don't get dramatic on their behalf, and create a plan where you expand their circles and meet as many people as possible at other activities similar to the ones that your child enjoys. There would be a similar child or two out there somewhere, they don't have to have friends only at school. Though even at school if I was a mother of such a child I'd probably would try one on one playdates with every child in the class that my child would want to have round, and see if they could build a friendship outside of a classroom initially.

And have things in their life for them to look forward to, have stuff to do at weekends even if it's flying a kite in the park or getting a hot chocolate somewhere, don't rely on other parents and kids to organise a social life for your child and then seethe that they don't! Nobody owes you and your children anything.

@wouldthatbeworse

The numbers are ok as long as youre discrete. Why anyone thinks 5/6 year old boys don’t like art is a mystery. No wonder so many kids think they are trans if a little boy can’t pick up a paintbrush (let alone enjoy dancing Or a doll)

I don’t think anyone is saying boys at this age don’t like art. But having worked with children, my experience is that 5/6 year old boys are less likely than 5/6 year old girls to be able to sit and do something quietly on task. It doesn’t mean all can’t and it doesn’t mean it will last forever. But generally, at this age, if you want that kind of party, boys of 5/6 will find it harder to sit.

@Marynotsocontrary

Sorry, I should have probably worded it differently. By childhood trauma I probably just meant "childhood", because trauma is inevitable and fairly normal in our development.

I don't mean abandonment or abuse or anything like that, there is a joke that goes - if you have parents you have something to discuss with a shrink.

But these sort of attitudes (where people take stuff personally which is not about them etc) are a result of certain conditioning, as 90% of all our attitudes and beliefs are. That can be reversed/unpicked if somebody wasn't very happy with how their life turns out. For people who are entirely content with how everything has turned out in their life of course there's no need to dig deeper...

This is normal in my son's class and I think it's fine but it has led to some feeling left out. My son's class (y1) has 30 but only 11 boys and the girls tend to have parties for just the girls and the boys just invite around 6/8 boys, lots put photos on Facebook so not very discreet. My sons been left out but doesn't seem to care at the moment but he's going to a party next week where 9/11 boys have been invited which I do think is a bit mean.

I think in your situation I would let her invite 5 friends, then including her the total is 6 for her 6th birthday, definitely not excluding people then and a manageable number for a craft party but enough people for it to feel like a birthday treat.

If there are 30 in the class inviting 8 girls is fine.

While I agree boys would love a painting activity, you should invite the children who you child wants to invite. You don't have to invite boys if she isn't friends with boys.

My son at 5/6 and to be fair quite a bit older would have enjoyed a party involving painting.

Thank you for the further explanation Cassandrainthenight.
I'm not saying that people don't have trauma in their lives (especially in the way you've further described), but that, even if they do, that's probably not the reason they've voted YABU. Being one of a small number excluded does make it about you personally to some extent, and even a child can see that. It's simply unkind to hurt children in this way unnecessarily, that's why I voted the way I did. It's important for parents to teach resilience as well, of course, but I think being thoughtful in our treatment of others is really important and something that should be modelled to our children too.

@Marynotsocontrary I agree there should basically be balance when taking those decisions, I just think there was enough balance in the OP's situation - where parents and children feel guilt tripped into something which isn't enjoyable or convenient (less alone affordable) for them, that's surely lack of balance as well!

Since it's next year you have plenty of time. Really it's best to just invite who DD wants there nearer the time & who she thinks might enjoy the activity. She gets to pick 8 or whatever number you feel you can manage.

Please Don't feel you have to invite everyone or invite less or more than you are comfortable with as
a) it's your DDs birthday party not a community or school event
b) there's nothing worse than being forced to have classmate you don't like (or a moody one that spoils it for everyone and complains a lit) at your own childhood birthday party .

Please dont go down the route of forcing DD to be polite and invite girls she doesn't know or really like for sake of appearances . Your DDs feelings are important too- it's her choice not others'.

I disagree with the PPs that say you have to think of "others feelz ". You're not holding a village event, it's a private party at your house.

I'd understand the angst if you were inviting whole class and only leaving out one single child- (unless the child has been bullying and horrible to DD, then fair enough). But inviting 8 (out of 11-12 girls) in a class of 30 isn't "leaving the others out" it's inviting who DD wants to a party that is small.

It's really overextending for some PPs to describe how the other girl classmates may suffer emotional problems by not being invited to your DDs party. They'll have their close friends that they invite to their parties and your DD to hers. People are overthinking "rules for a private birthday party" that aren't there.

[quote Cassandrainthenight]@Marynotsocontrary I agree there should basically be balance when taking those decisions, I just think there was enough balance in the OP's situation - where parents and children feel guilt tripped into something which isn't enjoyable or convenient (less alone affordable) for them, that's surely lack of balance as well![/quote]
Yes, I agree, but for me, the balance was 'out' in the situation the OP described originally. For others, like you, it wasn't. Clearly OP was worried about the balance herself, which is why she posted.

My DCs had varying levels of popularity snd who they played with in class at school . Youngest got invited to most of parties, eldest got invited to few. Middle one had varying years.

Not one of them were invited to every party held throughout the year.

None of my DCs are traumatised , not even the eldest one who maybe went to 2 - 4 parties a year of about 20+ parties a year from yearR onwards when his sister was easily going to 10 or more parties a year.

None of my DCs were brought up to be entitled enough to expect an invite to everyone's party! And I'd be a pretty poor parent if I encouraged them to feel entitled or aggrieved about not being invited.. you say "oh ok I understand .... but Johnny can't invite everyone and you don't really play with him you play more with Fred and Joe".

What reasonable parent IRL really supports this view : "DS yes you should be sad that you weren't invited when little Johnny has invited 7 of his friends but not you and 3 other boys in the mixed class of 30!!" ???

My dcs are in their 20s now but we only had small parties, either at home or a venue. I never invited more than 6 children, and they were all children who had been to our house for tea.
I found the endless party invites a nightmare, and we declined most whole class parties .....weekends were busy enough without parties taking up more time.

Children do learn from parents. I try and model kindness and empathy. I’m not personally prepared to upset a 6 year old and make them feel bad over a party when it’s totally unnecessary. I think all the evidence shows that personality traits/ SEN/ mental health problems are not caused solely by parenting style.

[quote Cassandrainthenight]@TableFlowerss

I agree it's human nature to want to fit in, but at age 5-6 clues from the parents should far outweigh social clues.
It's basic psychology, to belong to your parents and not be rejected by them for a small child is far more important than not be "rejected" by society.
For a small child to belong to their parents means to think and act like them. Not to copy their false words, exactly how the poster @JohnStonesMissus above demonstrates, she PRETENDED she didn't care that her daughter wasn't invited, and her daughter reacted exactly as her mother would have. The kids would follow the parents' true attitude.[/quote]
I’ve also been at the other end of it, as I have one ‘popular child’ (kids used to fight over them, though they’re older now and understand people can be shallow etc and understands the meaning of true friends) and one that’s whilst not typically popular, has a group of core friends so is popular in their own group and that’s all that counts.

Having a ‘popular’ child comes with issues too. Ive had 5 parents, over the years, message me asking about their DC friendships with my DC and if my DC is ok as DS doesn’t seem as interested in the DC as much and their DC is upset etc…It’s because they all become too much for my DC and don’t like my DC to have other friends.

I’ve got no issues with my child not being invited to a party as they can’t be invited to all the parties all the time and I do explain that to my child.

My gripe is when it’s the same kids left out each time, the small minority. When there’s 9 kids going and 4 aren’t. It’s just a bit of a shitty thing to do…..

@withgraceinmyheart

I think it’s fine. Kids need to get used to the idea that they won’t be invited to everything. If you were inviting 25 out of a class of 30 that’s mean. 8 of a class of 30 is a pretty normal number.

This