To be a bit hmmm about this teacher's choice of disciplining?

[GlomOfNit]

DS (13) year 9, science class. He's come home aggrieved and sad because his biology teacher has said that there will be absolutely no more science practicals in her classroom ... until either some culprits own up or their classmates snitch them in.

One of the boys (they're all boys) who apparently is a constant PITA, squirted another boy in the eyes with some milk out of a pipette. Obviously squirting someone in the eyes with anything during a science lesson isn't behaviour the school wants, and she came down like a ton of bricks and sent this boy straight to the isolation room. As he left, about a third of the rest of the class jeered, clapped etc - a big rowdy noise apparently.
One of them buried his safety specs into a fire bucket of sand (I'm imagining that may have scratched them.) She lost her temper with all this, and at the end of the class, demanded that the boys who jeered in a silly way/the one with the safety glasses own up, OR their classmates contact her to let her know which ones it was. (I mean, she was RIGHT THERE in the room!) And until she got that information there would be no more science practicals.

I'm probably being a bit perfect firstborn here (as he is) but is this not a bit unreasonable? It's unfair to punish the majority of the class for something that a few did right under her nose (so why couldn't she identify the culprits herself?), but massively unjust to withhold practical lessons (these have only just re-started after pandemic restrictions) which are part of their learning. And surely really bad practice to ask the 'goodies' to dob in the 'baddies'? Divisive and will have repercussions. Surely the onus was on her to identify the troublemakers?

To be clear, I'm supportive of the school to exact discipline and I appreciate that sometimes the entire class will suffer, but I don't think essential teaching should be withheld, and I don't think it's fair to ask the majority to act as her eyes.

What is she meant to do? She has to stop practicals until the class can behave sensibly as she is responsible for their safety. It is a total PITA for everyone but if there are no consequences, the behaviour will just get worse.

YABU. Nobody is withholding essential teaching OP.

It's also not a class punishment. It's a perfectly acceptable response to a health and safety situation caused by a substantial number of teenagers choosing to behave in a way that is potentially dangerous.

A teacher has made the decision that practical elements of science are suspended due to persistent poor behaviour that compromises the safety of others. When the students demonstrate they can behave safely, they will be able to complete practical elements of the lessons.

@plumsageplum

Would it be tolerated in a workplace if people started jeering at a person who had a run in with the boss?

I don't think teens who would jeer a bit in school turn into adults who jeer in their job. Because they are different environment and they are adults then. But, yes, there are jobs where a bit more banter and yes jeering would be tolerated, depending on the relationship they had with their superior/boss.

And so? The teacher is doing her job and doesnt deserve to be jeered at.

I'm not even against the practicals being called-off. It's not something I'd have been moaning to my parents about though and I wouldn't expect my parents to do anything.

I do think parents are too quick to get involved in school business. Just tell your son she's right because it's not safe and leave it at that.

If I were still teaching I’d have done similar if I had this sort of behaviour during practical lessons.

There were times when I stopped proceedings for a few minutes for a warning shot across the bows of those who were causing significant risks to themselves and others. (I taught a practical subject but not science)

Whilst I’m not a fan of punishing a whole class it is sometimes the only option. Peer pressure and shaming the idiots can resolve a situation.

I’m sure that parents would complain if there child were injured by the stupidity of others and that stupidity had continued more or less unchecked.

What would you do?

@GlomOfNit so 2 hours later and 100 plus comments disagreeing with you. You have been very quiet. Any thoughts?

OP, everyone here has already said it. But I'm HOD of science and been a science teacher for 18 years. Your DS teacher is absolutely right. I often say to my classes that my priority is their safety. If they mess about, practical gets cancelled.
What will probably happen is the class will do theory for a week then she will introduce practical with a strong message of final chance.

I appreciate your ds wasn't involved (you do know they all say that?) but it's her career on the line if one gets acid in their eye or another gets their hair/blazer burnt and injured. Back the teacher up. If all the parents do, the boys will hopefully leave a lot quicker how to respect the privilege of doing an experiment.

I don't understand the horror of "snitching". Would you rather people stand by and not report dangerous or illegal behaviour? How stupid!

I don't understand the horror of "snitching". Would you rather people stand by and not report dangerous or illegal behaviour? How stupid!

Do you work with teenagers?

Normally, whole-class punishments are lazy and a sign of a poor teacher. But if she can't trust the students to behave safely during a practical, she's absolutely right to refuse to do them.

I’m a science teacher at a leafy middle-class just above average state school and across the science department, we have taken the decision to ban practicals for two year groups for the next six months. Within the first three weeks of school we had beakers of acid smashed because students were play fighting around them, we’ve had students chasing each other around the room with knives, we’ve had students try to lick live electrical cables for a laugh and in my last practical lesson with my bottom year 9 set (the final straw which caused the school to do an outright ban) was students putting nails and iron filings into my water bottle on my desk when my back was turned during a magnetism practical as I was helping another group of students.

People have absolutely no idea the state of behaviour in U.K. schools at the moment. It’s horrific and getting worse. The worst behaved pupils when I was at school was nothing compared to the standard now. Even the top-sets are not absent of horrific behaviour. We’ve had teachers that were former soldiers or marines who have fought in war zones quit on the spot because the behaviour is out of control. Retention is getting worse and worse each year.

Teacher deserves a medal putting up with that crap tbh.

Squirting something in someone’s eye for sure warrants the discipline. It could have been hydrochloric acid the next time.

The teacher doesn’t seem to be able to control the class.
13 year olds shouldn’t be jeering etc when another dc is disciplined.
I would be more concerned about the lack of control in a science lab tbh.

Squirting milk out of a pipette into someone's eyes? Suppose it wasn't actually milk and was acid that someone had mistaken for milk?

If they can't be responsible and follow correct safety procedures she is absolutely correct in banning practicals. They sound immature , and I'm sure if there was any form of accident the parents would be the first to complain.

Way back in the 70’s the whole school got detention because we didn’t sing loud enough in assembly. Try not to be upset about it. He’ll be fine

I’m a teacher and I never use group punishments, but I don’t teach science.

In this situation, it’s not so much a punishment as a matter of health and safety. Practicals can not continue if students are in danger.

The teacher was right. A class of children with this many behaving immaturely means she has no choice but to stop practical work.

The teacher doesn’t seem to be able to control the class.13 year olds shouldn’t be jeering etc when another dc is disciplined.

It is not uncommon for teachers not to be able to control classes, because unfortunately teachers don't have magic powers, and some classes are simply not very controllable. Especially when SLT does not deal with persistent offenders and parents do not cooperate with the school.

The teacher is doing the right thing.

@WheresMyCycle

Sorry that should have been next time you're in a group of 30+, 2 are shouting for your help /attention, 5 are sniggering about something (possibly suspicious), 1 is crying with 2 friends comforting, the majority are getting on with a complicated activity with their backs to you as you're walking around the room, correcting any mistakes, errors, trying to challenge those "bored" or needing more stretching, trying to get 1 to focus as they struggle with ADHD and the learning support assistant isn't there as there aren't enough in the the school anyway... Oh and you've only go 14.75 minutes left to do 20 mins of what was on the lesson plan because they weren't listening at the start so you're trying to think of what's essential and what to cut out so they're not late for their next lesson.

And don't forget you have to evidence progress and evaluate the learning objectives. And collect the equipment and set homework

@Capferret maybe their parents should have taught their DC to behave

Very sensible of her not to continue after that appalling behaviour

@Capferret

The teacher doesn’t seem to be able to control the class. 13 year olds shouldn’t be jeering etc when another dc is disciplined. I would be more concerned about the lack of control in a science lab tbh.

How do you suggest she does this? You can guarantee the ones causing the bother don't have supportive parents. Let's say she sets detention. She doesn't teach them end of the day or before break or lunch and she can't go and collect them from their lesson because she's teaching. I'm sure she'd be open to your suggestions

YABVVU