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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be a bit hmmm about this teacher's choice of disciplining?

198 replies

GlomOfNit · 18/11/2021 19:33

DS (13) year 9, science class. He's come home aggrieved and sad because his biology teacher has said that there will be absolutely no more science practicals in her classroom ... until either some culprits own up or their classmates snitch them in.

One of the boys (they're all boys) who apparently is a constant PITA, squirted another boy in the eyes with some milk out of a pipette. Obviously squirting someone in the eyes with anything during a science lesson isn't behaviour the school wants, and she came down like a ton of bricks and sent this boy straight to the isolation room. As he left, about a third of the rest of the class jeered, clapped etc - a big rowdy noise apparently.
One of them buried his safety specs into a fire bucket of sand (I'm imagining that may have scratched them.) She lost her temper with all this, and at the end of the class, demanded that the boys who jeered in a silly way/the one with the safety glasses own up, OR their classmates contact her to let her know which ones it was. (I mean, she was RIGHT THERE in the room!) And until she got that information there would be no more science practicals.

I'm probably being a bit perfect firstborn here (as he is) but is this not a bit unreasonable? It's unfair to punish the majority of the class for something that a few did right under her nose (so why couldn't she identify the culprits herself?), but massively unjust to withhold practical lessons (these have only just re-started after pandemic restrictions) which are part of their learning. And surely really bad practice to ask the 'goodies' to dob in the 'baddies'? Divisive and will have repercussions. Surely the onus was on her to identify the troublemakers?

To be clear, I'm supportive of the school to exact discipline and I appreciate that sometimes the entire class will suffer, but I don't think essential teaching should be withheld, and I don't think it's fair to ask the majority to act as her eyes.

OP posts:

SockFluffInTheBath · 18/11/2021 20:07

Being a science teacher has the added dimension of risk from practicals. I was trained to put the fear of god into a class so they didn’t even try it to start with. Draconian as that sounds (and I’m not a horrible teacher) it simply means really impressing the safety rules onto the class before they even lift a test tube. Can you imagine having a class who don’t take you seriously heating acids? I have had one class that I stopped mid practical and changed the lesson to a demo and a bollocking about what could have happened. Demos only for a month then careful reintroduction and they were ok but it was a test of nerve the whole fucking time. It’s a complete headache because you are solely responsible for 30 maniacs’ personal safety, but it comes with the job. The teacher in the OP should have stopped at the squirting. Expecting kids to own up is a dumb idea, expecting grassing is worse.

FrippEnos · 18/11/2021 20:07

I said to a group of pupils that if they didn't behave I would stop the practical work.

A parent complained to my HoD, who decided that they would take the class and I could take their class.

I do not know what happened in the class that the HoD took off me but they had one more practical lesson and then did theory for the rest of the year.

I tell every class that I teach that health and safety comes first and I won't put others at risk because they want to have their brand of "fun". (and just FYI parents have complained because their child was sent out due to wrestling in the middle of the room)

TuesdayIsTheNewMonday · 18/11/2021 20:08

@LynetteScavo

She was thinking on her feet while the class were acting appallingly.

They don't sound safe to be doing practical lessons of they're behaving like that. I wouldn't want my DC to be in a class where others were behaving like this, so I'd be pleased the teacher wasn't letting them get away with it. She probably knows perfectly well who jeered, but would (quite rightly) like an apology from them.

I agree

SFHJ · 18/11/2021 20:09

Health and safety in practical lessons trumps doing the practical. She cannot risk a child being injured in a practical.
This is one of the times when it is appropriate to have full class punishment. I used to teach D&T and had a class I had to van from practical due to misbehaviour with tools for several members of the class.

maddy68 · 18/11/2021 20:10

She's right. It could have been a chemical in the eye. If practicals can't be done safely they won't be done at all

FrippEnos · 18/11/2021 20:14

@SFHJ

Health and safety in practical lessons trumps doing the practical. She cannot risk a child being injured in a practical. This is one of the times when it is appropriate to have full class punishment. I used to teach D&T and had a class I had to van from practical due to misbehaviour with tools for several members of the class.

I was once asked to go for a job interview at a college.

A friend told me to look at the workshop ceiling when they took the interviewees around the college.

Embedded in the ceiling was 20 - 30 wood working chisels.

The students would throw them up and see if they could get them to stick in the ceiling, unsurprisingly I didn't take the job.

RobotValkyrie · 18/11/2021 20:16

Hopefully OP, you'll have taught your own son that the morally correct (and courageous) action in such situation is for any witness to share relevant information about a crime (antisocial behaviour, vandalism) with the authorities (the teacher)... Right?

... Or are you more of the "boys will be boys" and "snitches get stitches" school of thought?

VeganCow · 18/11/2021 20:18

No advice but they sound like a rowdy bunch of little twats. No wonder she came down hard.

WheresMyCycle · 18/11/2021 20:19

Expecting kids to own up is a dumb idea, expecting grassing is worse.

I use this technique often, there's nothing wrong with it. I don't expect grassing, what usually happens is that the culprits actually own up. Obviously it depends on the culture of the school you work in. Mine is pretty decent and kids usually feel remorse and own up in the end. I've also had kids anonymously report others after the lesson has ended. Sounds like typical behaviour management practice to me.

IWishToAnswerInTheAffirmative · 18/11/2021 20:19

Fuck me. Who would be a teacher. Imagine having to deal with that shite every day in life. I simply could not.

plumsageplum · 18/11/2021 20:20

She is wants people to snitch on people who were jeering..? I wouldn't be snitching on anyone.

Hercisback · 18/11/2021 20:20

It's the only safe option. Sounds like a class full of students struggling to behave. Health and safety first every time.

Chasingaftermidnight · 18/11/2021 20:20

I don’t blame her on the slightest. Yes, it’s shit for the ones who were behaving to miss out but she has to ensure these practicals are done safely - in that situation, every kid in the room is at risk if one can’t behave appropriately.

JaffavsCookie · 18/11/2021 20:21

Agree with many other posters, it is the only time I impose whole class consequences. If I cannot trust a class sufficiently to do a practical we won’t do it. If we do one and it is going tits up behaviour wise I will cull the practical, possibly/possibly not after warnings.
All the students i teach have expected behaviour clearly spelled out to them before we start practical science but if most definitely is a massive health and safety issue if the kids cannot be sensible.

plumsageplum · 18/11/2021 20:22

It was a bit of jeering and some safety goggles got scratched. It was hardly defacing someone's shop or a hit and run.

LoveGoldberg · 18/11/2021 20:22

How would you deal with the issue OP?

Wishihadanalgorithm · 18/11/2021 20:24

You should be supporting the teacher over this. The class clearly cannot be trusted to behave. Even if it is only 25% who misbehave and are dangerous that’s far too many. This teacher has a responsibility to keep your DS and the other children safe.

WheresMyCycle · 18/11/2021 20:24

Fuck me. Who would be a teacher. Imagine having to deal with that shite every day in life. I simply could not.

This is why we have a recruitment crisis.
This is why we have a retention crisis.
This is why we feels so pissed off and undervalued by the rest of British "society".

WheresMyCycle · 18/11/2021 20:26

Fuck me. Who would be a teacher. Imagine having to deal with that shite every day in life. I simply could not.

It's a vocation. Thankfully in the right place for the right candidate it's worth the aggro and the mis-match wage to the skill and qualities required.

seven201 · 18/11/2021 20:29

I teach a practical subject and I have stopped practical lessons if the behaviour has been dangerous. If someone injured themselves in my lesson I could be held accountable, with worst case scenario being prison.

If you had 30 kids in your room, could you honestly say what each of them was doing all the time? Some kid once painted my chair with glue and I sat in it. I would LOVE to know if it was the boy I suspected!

If there is a specific kid being dangerous then they'll need their own risk assessment doing, so the teacher really does need to find out who it is being a twit.

zoemum2006 · 18/11/2021 20:30

Unfortunately they can't have practicals until they can behave as a group. It's unfortunate (and not really fair for your son) but until they can be trusted to be sensible it's not possible.

clatterclatter · 18/11/2021 20:31

@IWishToAnswerInTheAffirmative

Fuck me. Who would be a teacher. Imagine having to deal with that shite every day in life. I simply could not.

Amen to this.

Couldn’t cope with this shit day in day out.

diddl · 18/11/2021 20:32

"It was a bit of jeering and some safety goggles got scratched. It was hardly defacing someone's shop or a hit and run."

Maybe that's how the defacers & hit & runners started?

Why should it be tolerated at all?

CallmeHendricks · 18/11/2021 20:32

"It was a bit of jeering and some safety goggles got scratched. It was hardly defacing someone's shop or a hit and run."

"This is why we have a recruitment crisis."
"This is why we have a retention crisis."
"This is why we feels so pissed off and undervalued by the rest of British "society"."

Yummymummy2020 · 18/11/2021 20:32

That poor teacher. I’m on her side.

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