To be a bit hmmm about this teacher's choice of disciplining?

[GlomOfNit]

DS (13) year 9, science class. He's come home aggrieved and sad because his biology teacher has said that there will be absolutely no more science practicals in her classroom ... until either some culprits own up or their classmates snitch them in.

One of the boys (they're all boys) who apparently is a constant PITA, squirted another boy in the eyes with some milk out of a pipette. Obviously squirting someone in the eyes with anything during a science lesson isn't behaviour the school wants, and she came down like a ton of bricks and sent this boy straight to the isolation room. As he left, about a third of the rest of the class jeered, clapped etc - a big rowdy noise apparently.
One of them buried his safety specs into a fire bucket of sand (I'm imagining that may have scratched them.) She lost her temper with all this, and at the end of the class, demanded that the boys who jeered in a silly way/the one with the safety glasses own up, OR their classmates contact her to let her know which ones it was. (I mean, she was RIGHT THERE in the room!) And until she got that information there would be no more science practicals.

I'm probably being a bit perfect firstborn here (as he is) but is this not a bit unreasonable? It's unfair to punish the majority of the class for something that a few did right under her nose (so why couldn't she identify the culprits herself?), but massively unjust to withhold practical lessons (these have only just re-started after pandemic restrictions) which are part of their learning. And surely really bad practice to ask the 'goodies' to dob in the 'baddies'? Divisive and will have repercussions. Surely the onus was on her to identify the troublemakers?

To be clear, I'm supportive of the school to exact discipline and I appreciate that sometimes the entire class will suffer, but I don't think essential teaching should be withheld, and I don't think it's fair to ask the majority to act as her eyes.

@IWishToAnswerInTheAffirmative @clatterclatter this is why it is so important for parents to not undermine school policies. It’s a relentlessly challenging and mostly thankless post constantly criticised by people with no clue or drive to do it (better) themselves.

Regardless of finding out the culprits, practicals in this class seem like they would be a giant safety issue- if she has no control over a third of the class, then I don't know how comfortable I'd feel with practice sessions going ahead, without this being addressed to be honest

As he left, about a third of the rest of the class jeered, clapped etc - a big rowdy noise apparently.

Absolutely no chance I'd touch practicals with a class like that. That's a really bad sign.

Tell your kid to ignore the idiots and tell the teacher straight away if they do something stupid.

As PP have said it’s a huge safety concern and any injuries would be blamed on the teacher for not having control of the class. Usually with these things you only need to follow through on your word once for the class to get the message that reckless behaviour won’t be tolerated and there will be a consequence every time. Once they know you mean what you say, the majority pull the few chancers into line.

I quite agree Sock. My mum is a teacher. A very good one. When I think back to my own school days, born once did she ever badmouth a teacher, criticise a teacher, in front of me.

I learned many years later that there were times that she did take a teacher or two to task over some issues or other. I knew nothing of it at the time. It was important to her that we were respectful.

*"It was a bit of jeering and some safety goggles got scratched. It was hardly defacing someone's shop or a hit and run.""This is why we have a recruitment crisis."
"This is why we have a retention crisis."
"This is why we feels so pissed off and undervalued by the rest of British "society"." *

@CallmeHendricks why have you bundled my stuff in with someone else's? The two are unrelated. I'm replying in general to all of the shit that goes on and mounts up on top of parents complaining unnecessarily, not just that specific incident 😂

Not once.

A few years ago @GlomOfNit there was a poster on MN whose DC was injured by another child at school. Blinded in one eye. Sounds very lucky there isn’t another poster with the same story tonight.

@Doona

I mean, stealing and burying safety goggles? Deliberately squirting pipettes in people's eyes? Of course pracs can't continue. What choice does she have?

this

Completely appropriate reaction, not out of the ordinary at all. She'd be hoping the culprit owned up.

YABU about your pfb, behaviour is so shit in schools because parents think they know better than the trained professionals trying to do their job effectively.

Sit your son down and tell him that the teacher is absolutely in the right and that experiments can't continue if people aren't behaving safely.

FFS, I genuinely can't believe I'm having to say all this.

You’re being completely ridiculous. Yes she was in the room but as I presume she has a normal set of eyes she can’t watch what everyone is doing at once. The group sound vile and it’s pretty obvious that practicals can’t go ahead until the behaviour is sorted, regardless of what you think is essential.

Maybe that's how the defacers & hit & runners started?

Jeering?
Jeering-to-criminal pipeline.

Why should it be tolerated at all?

For the goggles, sure. Don't tolerate that. But jeering when a kid who misbehaved gets sent out? Can't see the big deal

As a science teacher, if a class of mine behaved in such an appalling manner, there would be no further practical wok until they could demonstrate that they could be trusted.

We use chemicals that can burn, or damage eye sight. We also use chemicals that can be fatal if enough is ingested. We have electrical equipment that can cause a nasty shock.

Kids need to behave to be able to do practical work.

Well done that teacher!
As a parent I would be 100% supportive. Safety first, always. Dicking about squirting pipettes in eyes and generally being badly behaved, even just a small minority, just is not safe for a practical lesson.

Also, the technique she has used is one that will hopefully encourage the jeerers/goggle burier to own up, but gives the option for others to dob them in, hopefully anonymously.

And this is why I'm leaving teaching.
Of course she's not unreasonable - the class are rowdy and acting dangerously and they need to be able to collectively behave before a practical lesson can go ahead safely.

@plumsageplum
For the goggles, sure. Don't tolerate that. But jeering when a kid who misbehaved gets sent out? Can't see the big deal

That's really really sad, so sad you can't understand why it's a problem. I'm really sorry you're struggling with that aspect. Basically, it means there is such a huge amount of disrespect towards the person of authority (teacher) and that in itself is kind of like mutiny (when a crew rises up against their captain). It paves way to more issues you see. Disrespect unchallenged increases and so much does the bad behaviour with it.

It's not a pub environment.

If after this sort of episode, that teacher persisted with practicals and your DS had some chemical squirted into his eye, what would you be on here saying? That's the question.

When a child winds up in A&E, who stands up and says the teacher was not at fault?

All this talk of snitching and grassing is a bit of a joke. No wonder kids aren’t accountable if their parents teach them oh never snitch, don’t be a grass. The teacher was right and I’d be very wary of using language like unjust. They have a hard enough time as it is.

@FrippEnos

I said to a group of pupils that if they didn't behave I would stop the practical work.

A parent complained to my HoD, who decided that they would take the class and I could take their class.

I do not know what happened in the class that the HoD took off me but they had one more practical lesson and then did theory for the rest of the year.

I tell every class that I teach that health and safety comes first and I won't put others at risk because they want to have their brand of "fun". (and just FYI parents have complained because their child was sent out due to wrestling in the middle of the room)

Brilliant!

I'm so fucked off at senior leadership members who think they can do it better and don't listen ... funny that your point was proven so easily to them when even they couldn't manage it.

Behaviour is really shit in so many schools these days ... no supporting of real consequences forthcoming from slt these days that mean anything, so what on earth do they expect?

Sounds like the teacher did exactly the right thing.

Yea terrible teacher behaviour … I would write to ofsted and report

@Doona

Safety first. If they can't manage the basics of safe behaviour then yeah sadly they can't have science pracs. The dobbing things is probably misjudged but they sound like ratbags.

This. They could kill someone, blind her or each other. Little fuckers and they clapped and supported him- stand up and do the right thing - support her. Stop blaming her for their shitty behaviour - tell your own child to give you a list of names - or was he one of them?

How the duck is she supposed to teach that ?

That's really really sad, so sad you can't understand why it's a problem. I'm really sorry you're struggling with that aspect. Basically, it means there is such a huge amount of disrespect towards the person of authority (teacher) and

I don't see a bit of jeering as teens as being "such a huge amount of disrespect". But then, my teachers didn't treat that kind of thing as a massively big violation, it was a bit of fun because someone got sent out. All the teacher has to do is tell them to stop and get on with whatever they are doing. It's if they don't stop when asked that it becomes an issue.

YABU.

If the class can't be trusted to be safe, then they can't do practicals.

How would you feel if the practicals continued and your child was hurt due to classmates squirting things in people's eyes and damaging safety glasses? Yes, it's disappointing for the children who weren't responsible, but the teacher has to manage the risks to the whole class.

@plumsageplum

Maybe that's how the defacers & hit & runners started?

Jeering?
Jeering-to-criminal pipeline.

Why should it be tolerated at all?

For the goggles, sure. Don't tolerate that. But jeering when a kid who misbehaved gets sent out? Can't see the big deal

Jeering shouldn’t be tolerated, it’s a classroom not a football stadium. Would it be tolerated in a workplace if people started jeering at a person who had a run in with the boss?

I think the teacher has done exactly the right thing here. Hopefully it will reinforce the idea bad behaviour will not be tolerated by the teacher and the poor behaviour having consequences for the whole class usually reinforces that by the troublemakers being seen as pain in the ass by other class members rather than treated an anarchic heroes.

Love this teacher. If this was my child’s teacher I would be grateful they have limited my child’s exposure to risk.