We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

@Mindareno

I think there is a difference between being positive about breastfeeding in and of itself, and continually stating is it superior to formula feeding. Once the comparison to formula feeding is brought in, as a big mother saying how big is superior, you are directly telling formula feeding mothers that you have done better for your child then they have done for theirs.

Of course that will cause upset, and it doesn’t generally need to be said.

Marginally, it is, because it's tailored to the baby. Formula is a substitute for breastmilk. But it's just so insignificant, and even if (though) breastmilk is "better" it does not matter. You cannot tell the difference between two babies fed differently.

That goes for either side, really. I don't care how others feed, I'm not offended by someone else being happy with their choice and promoting it, if they like.

I agree rarge, on an individual level it’s unlikely to make the blindest bit of difference to the baby. But when you’re newly postpartum and want to breastfeed, but it doesn’t work out, it isn’t nice to have breast is best paraded in front of you. It’s an emotive time for lots of women.

@Mindareno

I think there is a difference between being positive about breastfeeding in and of itself, and continually stating is it superior to formula feeding. Once the comparison to formula feeding is brought in, as a big mother saying how big is superior, you are directly telling formula feeding mothers that you have done better for your child then they have done for theirs.

Of course that will cause upset, and it doesn’t generally need to be said.

You've hit it on the head, @Mindareno

It's the suggestion of superiority that's hurtful, because I think nowadays the vast majority of Mums want to at least partially bf and feel terrible if it doesn't work out....I could be wrong, but everyone I knew/know wanted to bf. That's why people like me shell out money on specialist advice and equipment when it doesn't go smoothly.

We're desperately trying to do something that's relatively easy for some people. It's abit like saying why isn't every Mum back to her prepartum weight in six weeks, because I was.

I see “bf mum” has somehow come out as “big mum” in my post - apologies!

Yeah that’s totally fine. You don’t get it. I’m sensitive about it, much less so now than I’ve ever been and probably in another few years I’ll care even less.
How babies are fed shouldn’t matter but clearly to many women it does or these discussions wouldn’t exist. I find it sad that women feel like they can’t be proud of their breastfeeding journey and sad for women who are failed by the lack of support post birth. Breastmilk is great, formula is great although doesn’t carry the immunity benefits or benefits to the mother re certain cancers but in the long run it’s going to matter very little in the overall picture of how anyone raises their child.

I don’t personally post about Mother’s Day but I doubt many people are posting that other people are inadequate because they no longer have one/have a poor relationship with theirs as opposed to the ‘formula harms’ type ones that end up on any thread like this.
Sorry for your loss x

@Teacupsandtrainers

Yeah that’s totally fine. You don’t get it. I’m sensitive about it, much less so now than I’ve ever been and probably in another few years I’ll care even less. How babies are fed shouldn’t matter but clearly to many women it does or these discussions wouldn’t exist. I find it sad that women feel like they can’t be proud of their breastfeeding journey and sad for women who are failed by the lack of support post birth. Breastmilk is great, formula is great although doesn’t carry the immunity benefits or benefits to the mother re certain cancers but in the long run it’s going to matter very little in the overall picture of how anyone raises their child.

I don’t personally post about Mother’s Day but I doubt many people are posting that other people are inadequate because they no longer have one/have a poor relationship with theirs as opposed to the ‘formula harms’ type ones that end up on any thread like this.
Sorry for your loss x

Thanks. I mean, your right and I get some don't want to hear about it. But in the grand scheme of things, I just can't believe this is where we draw the line on sensitive topics. Sometimes as adults we do have to be resilient: by all means debate if one wants, but it's like some people just don't want to hear it whatsoever

Deliberate antagonism and boasting is clearly bad, but that much is obvious

I can see both sides of the argument, I understand how much of an advantage breast feeding was. I have high big boobs, or I did when mine were babies , and could never get st fits two into a comfortable position, and I ended up bleed so much they couldn't feed without throwing the feed back up. Once I decided to bottle feed I came under so much pressure to try again. It was obvious after the second child I couldn't do it. I bottle fed DD from the start and again felt a lot of pressure to breast feed again.

I had strangers demanding to know if I was breastfeeding my new baby. No idea why they felt the need to but as she was 9 months old when she arrived and I had no biological link my body hadn't produced milk. I went with the medicated formula the Foster carer gave me. If I was ever able to gave baby's myself I would have loved to do it for bonding and to give the child some benefits but wasn't possible

But in the grand scheme of things, I just can't believe this is where we draw the line on sensitive topics. Sometimes as adults we do have to be resilient: by all means debate if one wants, but it's like some people just don't want to hear it whatsoever

Yeah I completely get where you’re coming from. I honestly wouldn’t want debate shut down because it ‘hurt my feelings’ but I definitely understand why it’s such a highly emotive subject for many women.

@Silverclasp I agree with you that you would get flamed if you post anything that is pro-bf. Maybe pre-requisite with "you do what is right for you (including bottle feeding!) but here is an interesting article about a recent study re bf'ing. "
The challenge with posting anything at any time is it could represent our biases. There are benefits to bottle feeding. Formula is a bit more filling and so formula fed may likely sleep through the night earlier. Anyone can make formula at any time so if your child wants an extra feed and there isn't breastmilk pumped, you can just mix up a bottle. You can just mix up a bottle, prop up in a car seat, at leave the child to self feed. It's a question if the undertone is that there are only benefits to BF and none for bottle feeding

I have two DC. First DC I b/f until 18 months. I did a mix in the beginning because I wasn't producing enough milk and had to top up. Then we went away for a week and the bottles were becoming too much for me so from about 2 or 3 months, I was EBF'ing. I really didn't like pumping as a result. Epidural birth as well even though I was like 9 cm !

DC2 - I'm still BF'ing - she is almost 2! I keep being told "she's too old for BF'ing." I think we will keep going until she has a few more teeth (she is 3 shy from a full set - but starting getting teeth 6 months later than DC1.) She was a QUICK birth, under 3 hours. I think all that adrenaline may have helped with the BF oversupply. I had every intention of donating Bmilk to the local Bmilk bank but lockdown :(

I think both conversations need to happen. My best friend and her sister are different. My best friend has deduced most of her health problems stem from not being b/f as her sister was b/f and has none. Bmilk is specific to your child so whatever your child needs would be in it. DC2 is in nursery with many bugs and I love being able to give her Bmilk. however, what I think would be great is during national BF week is that we remind any BF mummies that they can donate Bmilk to local banks.

To the best of my knowledge, the Bmilk banks are mostly used for NICU and early-pre-term babies. I could be wrong.

It would be great if we could offer more Bmilk to bottle fed babies in early months.

I am imagining it is hard for any mother to imagine their child drinking someone else's milk though. We are quite connected, as a collective, to specific ideas and ideals on our children. I'm sure there is a protective element but perhaps we have to let go a little bit at this.

I went to a wedding when DC1 was about 3 or 4 months. The bride (who was really just renewing her vows, was in her 40s and had more than 4 children with her husband) grabbed by DC1 and I did not see him for a while. I explained to my DH that this is normal - people like showing off babies. I sat back (back to baby!) and enjoyed my meal and had to make a strong effort to not be worried - but that is normal to feel worried!

As a collective we just need to be more supportive to whatever it is we end up doing. There are likely more long-term healthy benefits to the baby who is BF (even short term - such as passing on immunity). But there are also benefits to bottle feeding.

Wishing everyone the best on their life journeys.

@LemonDrizzles I appreciate your points and do agree to most and this is a little off topic but isn't propping a bottle up for a baby to self feed not incredibly dangerous?

www.healthline.com/health/baby/bottle-propping

I only ever see posts like this, never actually see evidence of what you've said.

If anything, formula feeders get a very rough ride. Breastfeed your baby, no one is offended

@ChocolateQuiltedShitpig there are literally 28 pages of comments on this thread most of which are ppl saying that they are offended and telling me not to post the article

I just don't get why this is the topic that is so contentious. Whether one uses one type of milk... or another.

Because women are judged. Simple as that.

When you try and educate women who are already committed but struggling to do it, you're showing that you CBA to understand the actual problem. That sets the scene for the judgement.

@ChocolateQuiltedShitpig I and other posters aren't offended by breastfeeding. I am offended by the 'if I was told the benefits I would have breastfed' message/attitude somepeople have. I bloody well know the benefits and desperately wanted to breastfeed.

Why couldn't I? Because 6 doctors failed to diagnosis my son with CMPA and finally masked the symptoms using medicine rather than actually diagnosing him. By the to they had done that my milk supply was fucked and I was stressed mother with a baby who had only gained 1lb from his birth weight at 3 months old. Knowing the benefits wasn't going to change the absolutely substandard medical care my son received.

There are pages and pages of posts here telling you why women didn't breastfeed and none of them are saying it was because they didn't know the benefits.

[quote Silverclasp]@MollieMaeve maybe if ppl knew the benefits it could help them with their decision?[/quote]
As far as I know the majority of mums start breastfeeding but then breastfeeding rates gradually reduce with the age of babies. This seems to indicate that most mums do know the benefits And want to breastfeed but stop because there are issues with breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is bloody hard and in some cases just doesn't work. What we need is more support to help mums to breastfeed. Having said that with all the support I got my milk supply was just too low and I had to give my dc formula. Initially I cried every time I read another article about how great breastfeeding is but now I know I made the right decision. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

So to answer your question yes of course you can post anything you find interesting but my hunch is it will not actually help many mums.

If formula is almost as good as breast milk, why does the NHS recommend that even smokers breastfeed? Surely if the two substances are just about equal, it's better to give babies the one that isn't laced with nicotine? The NHS isn't exactly pro-smoking, so why would they lie?

Any time I speak to the midwife she mentions the benefits of BF so there's no way expectant mothers are oblivious to this. But equally I had a complete nightmare with my first for a plethora of reasons. As much as yes I intend to BF this one, if it doesn't work out I'm not going to beat myself up about it. It just doesn't work for everyone and knowing all the benefits you are "depriving" your child of isn't helpful for anyone.

If someone wants to support BFing, they'd do more good finding out what practical support they can offer a new family than posting stuff on SM about the positives of BFing. In our case I was getting it rammed down my throat by the NHS, all HCPs I cam across and social media, was given a copy of the Womanly art of BFing for my birthday whilst pregnant and a sub to a 'natural parenting' magazine for Christmas when I had a tiny newborn. All of those just made me feel terrible and heightened the pressure, whilst being no actual help with BFing (milk failed to come in leading to seriously ill baby readmitted with dehydration).

What no one did was offer us meals, offer to take the baby so we could sleep, offer us lifts, do the shopping. There was precisely zero practical support.

And I'm amused that people think Fed is Best is a terrible source (it's actually thoroughly evidence-based and balanced but seems to be loathed in EBFing circles - it's the only place I found support for combi-feeding after various MWs, HVs etc couldn't offer me any) but will happily recommend the likes of Kellymom (which is funded by BFing advertising, run by someone who makes a living from BFing and is heavily biased) and La Leche League which is also very unbalanced and cherry picks evidence without critiquing it.

Eg what I mean by balanced info which allows families to make choices:
At the moment the msg is a blanket 'do not introduce a bottle before at least 6-8 weeks because nipple confusion'.

This leads to fear from those who have had to introduce a bottle early because of delay/low supply because they think they've ruined BFing, people struggling with their MH carrying on when they could get a break, people who will need their baby to take a bottle because of their personal circs end up with a bottle refuser.

It would be far better to say:
There is no evidence for nipple confusion. Some babies will need to have a bottle from early on in cases where milk is delayed or low supply (these are the risk factors to look out for and what you can do about it...).
If you choose to introduce a bottle early you may run more risk of bottle preference. If you delay introducing a bottle you may run more risk of having a bottle refusing baby. Would you like to talk about your priorities as a family (eg around returning to work, sharing feeds) so you can make an informed choice?

Advice is so confusing which doesn’t help! I remember hearing about not introducing a bottle too early, but my milk didn’t come in straight away and I wasn’t allowed home due to being losing weight until she was taking a substantial amount of milk which obviously had to be through a bottle. I don’t understand what else I could do in the situation. When you are sleep deprived, hormonal and desperate to do the right thing for your baby but being given completely conflicting advice it’s really hard to know what to do.
In the past I guess many people had family around to support while establishing breast feeding but it’s much harder when you are on your own with a baby and older toddlers etc

Exactly. I was told antenatally it was vital to follow the golden rules for BFing - BF on demand, BF as soon after birth as possible, baby would want to BF frequently, do lots of skin to skin. I did all that and the result was no milk.

Admitted to SCBU with baby severely dehydrated we were put on a schedule (having been told antenatally this was the worst thing you could do!) involving BF, top up and express for 30 mins every 3 hours to try and force my milk to come in. That also didn't work, although the top ups meant my baby was no longer in danger.

Then the stuff about it being vital to feed at night for supply. Nope, my milk didn't even come in until I was getting 8 hour blocks of sleep.

Too much of the BFing promotion treats us like we're factory products all set to work the same rather than individual women with different bodies, health needs etc.

What the fuck is happening to our species? Why are women losing the ability to produce breastmilk? And why aren't scientists doing more to find out why this is happening? It's extremely concerning.

It's never been the case all women can produce enough milk to fully feed a baby. There's evidence for it going back centuries. Enough babies survived for humans to continue but many more didn't survive. Even 100 years ago the infant mortality rate was 15%.

Plus now there are a lot of women having babies and trying to BF who once wouldn't have done - whether thru infertility, having medical conditions that would once have killed them before they could even have got pregnant, or who would have died or been seriously injured by the birth, or whose baby didn't survive the birth. Having a CS or a haemorrhage was once a death sentence, now they're risk factors for milk delay and low supply.