We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

I hear you OP. For what it’s worth, well done for breastfeeding, the very best thing for your baby if you can do it. Big emphasis on the if, and I do have compassion for anyone who couldn’t for whatever reason. It always surprises me that breastfeeding rates are so low in the UK yet so many also say there is lots of pressure to breastfeed. How can there be if formula feeding is clearly the norm? It doesn’t marry up for me.

And yes I write this at 2.30am breastfeeding 😂 and yes I am happy to read of the thymus benefits. Thanks for the post.

@Boobicoosg

I think I can answer that. There is a load of pressure, but little to no support if you run into problems establishing breastfeeding. Hospital staff don't care, they just want to get you out the door as quickly as possible to free up the bed. Community groups and HVs may be helpful, but that's really a luck-of-the-draw thing. Lactation consultants are available to those who can afford them, and even then, not all are helpful (ask me how I know). Add to that the fact that families tend to live in isolation, so women don't have the help of female relatives and neighbours as they did in the past, and as women in other countries still do.

So, while there is a ton of pressure, there is so little help available that many women give up and feel shit about themselves. And then we have threads like these in which those who were lucky enough to breastfeed cast doubt on those of us who tried (and tried and tried) and just couldn't make it work.

Those of you who are concerned about breastfeeding rates, might I suggest you look into the wider systemic reasons for this rather than just insisting that all FF mothers "made a choice". No. We. Fucking. Didn't.

I agree. I use my Instagram stories as memories a lot, like I like to watch them back alot, I was considering doing one about celebrating breastfeeding for 6 months which I’m really proud of (had alot of issues at the beginning). It’s an achievement like any achievement you might want to post about it if you’re proud of it. I also often want to post stuff about BF that normalises breastfeeding, like a photo of myself BF in public. But I haven’t/ won’t post either of those as I think it would upset my friends who wanted to BF longer and couldn’t x

Given the lack of medical work ups for those who run into breastfeeding difficulties it's hard to untangle how many couldn't produce milk no matter what, how many could have partially breastfed with supplements and how many fully with some proper support and investigation.

Calling it choice not to breastfeed is too simplistic but obviously not all of these women are unable to produce milk. Formula culture still exists in the medical profession even with the baby friendly initiative so you get mixed messages with a lot of pressure to initiate breastfeeding and formula being the quick and easy solution to any difficulties.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee I was never really engorged either (certainly not painfully so) and never ever leaked. But my babies put on weight, had the right no of wet and dirty nappies and were alert. Someone on a bf helpline told me that there’s a muscle in your nipples and if it’s very tight (just a fluke of anatomy) then pumps basically don’t work, but the sucking action of a baby is completely different, so I think that’s what it was in my case.

Your tone is just a bit unnecessary. Breastfeeding may be “biologically normal” but you don’t have to make something that is completely subjective feel so superior.

@Abitlost2

Of course human babies should drink human milk, it's full of antibodies, protects them and the mother against many illnesses. Is it easy? No. Do bf babies wake up a lot more? 100 percent.

Of course some mother's can't bf but it's a tiny minority. If the amount of mothers who say they can't bf really can't the human race would have died out years ago.
But you can't say this...

Well I mean you just did say it, so I’m not sure why you’re claiming you can’t.

People are going to take issue with it of course - because it’s kind of dickish to come in at the end of a long thread in which countless posters have detailed the many and complex reasons why they couldn’t breastfeed despite not wanting to desperately, how much it affected their mental health, how shit and shamed they felt as mothers, how desperate they’d been for support of help which either didn’t exist or was too expensive for them in the case of IBLCs. Where it’s been explained over and over again that knowing that ‘human babies are best to drink human milk’ is not and never was the fucking issue, there isn’t a woman on this thread who doesn’t know about the precious bloody antibodies. And it’s really shit to smugly imply that other women who have really struggled are just lying and that they could/ should have just tried harder with the tired old ‘human race would have died out’ argument which has also already been debunked on this thread. I don’t really care how statistically unlikely you find it that I didn’t produce any milk, there was never a bloody drop - but also not one person seemed to care or ask me about it or record it anywhere so I’m not sure where the statistics about it come from in the first place.

But of course you CAN say it if you want.

*despite WANTING to desperately

The figures and the report are from the Lancet, not Unicef or the BFI. Im sure they have the papers to back up the claim. Or are we going to claim the lancet has a secret agenda?

Baby Friendly is an utterly despicable organisation. They don't collect stats for babies readmitted because of BFing problems in their accredited hospitals, all they care about is raising BfIng rates, and penalising hospitals that offer formula. Even though this is harming babies (including mine). They also deny parents info about formula - if you say you want to BF their guidelines mean you won't get access to info or support about formula - yet most parents will say they want to BF because everyone knows it's 'best' and they don't get informed about any of the risks because Baby Friendly means only positive info is presented. It also means that parents end up using formula in an emergency (as we had to) with no idea what they're doing - I'd never sterilised anything in my life - what to buy etc.

I'd far rather parents were given the pros and cons of EBF, EFF and combi, the risk factors for not being able to EBF (which affects over 1/5 women at least initially so not insignificant numbers).

I attended a weekly obstetric diabetes clinic during the third trimester - each week loads of talk about how vital it was I BF as it would mean my baby wouldn't be diabetic (this isn't even true) but not one HCP mentioned that diabetes is a big risk factor for milk delay and low supply.

I also think BFing promotion should be reviewed for the claims they're making - I remember thinking if it was a product I'd be sueing the manufacturer for making outrageous untrue claims!

Ironically I boycotted Nestle for decades before having my baby and distrusted the formula companies hugely, yet it was the BFing professionals who could lie without any consequences.

The 800,000 lives saved claim is really dodgy.
fedisbest.org/2017/07/the-lancet-nonexistent-magic-breasts-could-save-800000-lives-per-year/

I think I’ll trust a well respected scientific journal over fedisbest.org to be fair. This is starting to sound like an antivaxer thread!

@Boobicoosg

I hear you OP. For what it’s worth, well done for breastfeeding, the very best thing for your baby if you can do it. Big emphasis on the if, and I do have compassion for anyone who couldn’t for whatever reason. It always surprises me that breastfeeding rates are so low in the UK yet so many also say there is lots of pressure to breastfeed. How can there be if formula feeding is clearly the norm? It doesn’t marry up for me.

And yes I write this at 2.30am breastfeeding 😂 and yes I am happy to read of the thymus benefits. Thanks for the post.

Because a lot of women just don’t want to, and given the health difference is negligible, what does it even matter?

I would understand the push if bfing was noticeably superior to ff but it isn’t.

I’ll say it again, if you’re truly pro-choice on this issue, then there is no ‘right’ percentage of bfing women. Just let other people make their own decisions and stop being so nosy.

[quote Jujujuly]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee I was never really engorged either (certainly not painfully so) and never ever leaked. But my babies put on weight, had the right no of wet and dirty nappies and were alert. Someone on a bf helpline told me that there’s a muscle in your nipples and if it’s very tight (just a fluke of anatomy) then pumps basically don’t work, but the sucking action of a baby is completely different, so I think that’s what it was in my case.[/quote]
That's interesting. I am learning a lot from this thread about BF challenges, including the diabetes info someone just posted. I think if you were engorged at all that is quite different than some women but more, this makes me think that the info we are getting out about BF tends to focus on hammering home the benefits and not on any of this stuff, which is really remiss. My lactation support said one issue was my flat nipples and large breasts. I vividly remember her saying 'imagine trying to latch onto a football' whilst visually demonstrating (on an imaginary ball). I don't know if pre-warned would have meant I could have done something (pull nipples out????) before things deteriorated. There were problems with both my kids sucking too - they were weak sucker and never got a good seal (maybe due to my anatomy?). The pumping for me was not really aiming to get anything much out and I never got enough to feed them with. It was supposed to be stimulating supply.

It always surprises me that breastfeeding rates are so low in the UK yet so many also say there is lots of pressure to breastfeed. How can there be if formula feeding is clearly the norm? It doesn’t marry up for me.

For those of us who've experienced it, it marries up perfectly. If you're struggling to BF you get very little support but a lot of information thrown at you which outlines the benefits - as if that will mean you just magically find a way to do it. There's nothing incompatible about this at all. In fact, I actually think the focus on 'education' is one cause of low BF rates.

Agree with the last post. I think the pressure comes from health professionals sadly. It’s the first question any doctor, midwife or health visitor asks you - are you breastfeeding? And if you say yes you get a big nod and smile of approval and a well done! I very much felt that as pressure to continue in the early days rather than encouragement as there wasn’t any actual support to help keep me going. The only support I can access is half an hour drive away from me run by volunteers, when you have a baby who hates the car that’s very difficult to access! There’s the national breastfeeding helpline but it’s not the same as face to face support. There’s also a lack of places to breastfeed out and about unless you’re completely comfortable doing in public (not me), and some feeding rooms that do exist consist of a small cubicle with a hard wooden chair in it! There’s also a massive lack of understanding in the general public about what breastfeeding a baby on demand entails. I’m one of the first in my friendship group to have a baby and went to a wedding recently and everyone assumed I could just leave my baby with my parents for the day. So these are just some of the examples of how there’s pressure to breastfeed but no actual support to go alongside it.

@Glassofshloer

I’ll say it again, if you’re truly pro-choice on this issue, then there is no ‘right’ percentage of bfing women. Just let other people make their own decisions and stop being so nosy.

Ah this is the same argument as ' you must approve morally of all abortions/at any point or you're anti choice'

I don't think your point is true. You can think breastmilk is ideal but still think fed is best. That's my position. Ultimately I don't care how anyone's child is fed, but on a nutritional level, yes, breastmilk is better. It is part of evolution so of course it is, and formula is literally supposed to mimic breastmilk. Also, babies are going to prefer snuggling a warm breast as they feed.

This is only objective though. I do not care, I've never even asked another mum how her baby is fed.

@Abitlost2

Of course human babies should drink human milk, it's full of antibodies, protects them and the mother against many illnesses. Is it easy? No. Do bf babies wake up a lot more? 100 percent.

Of course some mother's can't bf but it's a tiny minority. If the amount of mothers who say they can't bf really can't the human race would have died out years ago.
But you can't say this...

You can say it. You mean that you can’t say it without sounding like a complete arse, and people pointing out to you that you sound like a complete arse.

@DingleyDel

I think I’ll trust a well respected scientific journal over fedisbest.org to be fair. This is starting to sound like an antivaxer thread!

Because people like reputable sources for claims that don't seem to have any? Again, breastfeeding has tonnes of amazing benefits and is incredible, but on these threads there are always random facts and figures that aren't true, if the same was being same of breastfeeding I'm sure many would be vocal of wanting to see the research. Still can't see in the lancet where they pulled the hypothetical figures from, and how they have assumed breast feeding as the prominent breast cancer factor rather than part of the same puzzle.

Ok you can say it but get abusive comments thrown at you. I believe the vast majority can bf but don't , how else would humans be able to survive. But absolutely , there needs to be more education and support re bf to help mother's who want to do it. I agree re pumping, i ebf all ny babies but pumping produced very little.

how else would humans be able to survive

Well lots of them didn’t did they, not just due to no formula (we’ve clearly made many advances in health and sanitation in addition to this). We know people had more children because not all of them would survive. Wet nursing and earlier weaning were also more prevalent and historically feeding infants animal milk appears to have been around for at least 3000 years.
Breast milk is best for babies however it would appear that not breastfeeding for whatever reason isn’t unique to modern women.

@Abitlost2

Ok you can say it but get abusive comments thrown at you. I believe the vast majority can bf but don't , how else would humans be able to survive. But absolutely , there needs to be more education and support re bf to help mother's who want to do it. I agree re pumping, i ebf all ny babies but pumping produced very little.

The word “can” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there though. Presumably you mean they “can” as long as they are prepared to put up with an unlimited amount of physical pain and exhaustion, and disregarding their mental health.

I breastfed my first baby. My second baby came in lockdown. She had an awful tongue tie and there were no services to get it sorted. There were no breastfeeding clinics on. She was losing weight and the midwife said if she didn’t start to gain she would be readmitted. I was in such pain with the feeding even a month in I was too distressed to look after either child properly, and my husband as a doctor was out working all the hours you’d imagine in a pandemic. I accept there is probably no physical reason that it would be impossible for me to breastfeed. I think it is very dismissive to simply say that I could have but I didn’t.

The same is true of many women who have a very difficult journey with breastfeeding - maybe they didn’t have a medical issue, but it would have taken an intolerable toll on them to continue. Well done to anyone who breastfeeds successfully, as I did first time, but please understand it is harder for some women than it is for others.

While there's no denying that BF is optimum, i think the evangelical approach shown by some is a reflection of their inexperience, both of the difficulties faced by other mothers, but also of child rearing. There are countless women who have lived experience of raising robust, healthy secure children all the way to equally healthy adulthood having not BF. Yet relatively new mothers (of BF age children) have become the self appointed experts, creating anxiety and misplaced guilt amongst other women and invalidating their experiences. How you feed your child is a tiny part of the child raising journey, and a little perspective is called for.