We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

It always surprises me that breastfeeding rates are so low in the UK yet so many also say there is lots of pressure to breastfeed. How can there be if formula feeding is clearly the norm? It doesn’t marry up for me.

For those of us who've experienced it, it marries up perfectly. If you're struggling to BF you get very little support but a lot of information thrown at you which outlines the benefits - as if that will mean you just magically find a way to do it. There's nothing incompatible about this at all. In fact, I actually think the focus on 'education' is one cause of low BF rates.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee 100% agree. I remember telling the midwife I wanted to go home as I was getting no support in helping me to BF and I told her my views that I'd had all along; I'd try BF but if it didn't work for either me or baby, she'd be straight on formula. She told me that I had to show 3 feeds before she'd even think of discharging me. I'm so grateful my DH was there as he told her I'd be feeding our daughter twice - whether I chose BF or FF and that was my choice - and then he would be coming back to collect us. I was in absolute tears as I was so frustrated at the lack of help. Even when I was discharged, I had to watch a BF video even though I physically couldn't BF!

Well obviously breastfeeding is physically possible for most women, but it can be very hard to establish. Yes, breastmilk is imperative for survival in infancy, biologically. So the mechanism generally works well - as in the vast majority can lactate.

In the old days people had no choice. Either you can afford a wet nurse, you exhaust breastfeeding or your child dies. Infant mortality was mostly attributed to disease and poor conditions than inability to lactate (maybe I'm wrong, but I think these were more significant).

In today's world we don't need to suffer with the pain of breastfeeding. If our baby doesn't latch, we have a good alternative.

Bottom line is- breastfeeding is generally possible. We don't have to pretend otherwise. But not wanting to do it is fair enough,

It definitely does seem like it gets received as an attack if you ever mention breastfeeding, mention you have or mention you what to. I agree with the OP. I really don’t understand why though, nobody cares what nappies I use or what bath products I use, whether I burp or not.

I was on a thread not long ago and someone said the completely neutral statement of ‘formula changes the gut flora’ and people were absolutely raging something like ‘are you saying I’ve hurt my baby’s gut blah blah’. People lose all perspective when it comes to talking about what their tits secrete.

If someone feels like they’ve done a good job by battling through challenges to breastfeed, congratulate them like you would anyone else proud of anything.

I fed my first son for 8 months, my second for 1 month. I’m not having anymore babies but theoretically I would breastfeed again if I ever had more. I found it physically easy to breastfeed and there was never a supply or latch issue to overcome.

I do find it a little baffling when I see women going through hell trying to breastfeed and then enjoy a yoghurt or nice milky drink with a friend. Why is it such a hot topic when you introduce dairy to your child? Nobody seems to care when I introduced beef, sauerkraut or mustard.. just dairy.

Mostly kellymom and La leche league are to blame for the passion and blinkered views when it comes to BFing. They encourage night wakings, even up to ten times a night with our first and they encouraged it as normal, I should just try and get through itwrong, he had an intolerance which they ignored. The Facebook groups are littered with jovial competitions on how many times your little one woke up last night. In reality not many can sustain that with western life.

I should never have clicked on a BFing thread. I'm now in floods of tears as the memories of my failed attempts assail me. Stupid of me, I know, but BFing was honestly one of the most disappointing and upsetting experiences of my life, yet with each new baby, I tried again, hoping this time I might crack it.

If you were able to do it, then well done you, but please know that simply giving information about the benefits of BFing is not going to raise BFing rates. We know it's better, but that doesn't help us if we're facing problems with no practical advice or support.

If you had no issues breastfeeding, then you have no clue what it's like for those of us who did. I really hope some of you can swap your judgement for compassion.

I’m sorry it upset you @MeanWeedratStew and I am sure no one wanted to do that, but a discussion about breastfeeding isn’t personal to you or anyone and I honestly do not feel that you should take it as such.

@Abitlost2

Ok you can say it but get abusive comments thrown at you. I believe the vast majority can bf but don't , how else would humans be able to survive. But absolutely , there needs to be more education and support re bf to help mother's who want to do it. I agree re pumping, i ebf all ny babies but pumping produced very little.

If I hadn't pumped (electric pump), my supply would've dried up as DD was having so much trouble sucking. I hope my experience isn't the norm, but I still don't know why my healthy baby couldn't suck properly -there was nothing wrong with my supply - I could bf, DD was having the problems.

Sorry, I'm not trying to take it personally. I just think the OP is well-meaning but clueless and, honestly, a bit patronising in her assumption that women who don't BF just need more information on the wonders of breastmilk. Lack of information is NOT the reason so many of us give up. Then other posters come in with "but only a tiny minority of women can't do it, I don't believe all these women who say they couldn't, they made a choice..." etc. With attitudes like this, it's no wonder women who struggle feel so alone.

Anyway, I'll just say this and bow out: if breastfeeding rates are low overall, then there are wider issues at play. Many posters have pointed to lack of support, and that's what needs addressing, not "educating" women on what they already know.

@MeanWeedratStew

I should never have clicked on a BFing thread. I'm now in floods of tears as the memories of my failed attempts assail me. Stupid of me, I know, but BFing was honestly one of the most disappointing and upsetting experiences of my life, yet with each new baby, I tried again, hoping this time I might crack it.

If you were able to do it, then well done you, but please know that simply giving information about the benefits of BFing is not going to raise BFing rates. We know it's better, but that doesn't help us if we're facing problems with no practical advice or support.

If you had no issues breastfeeding, then you have no clue what it's like for those of us who did. I really hope some of you can swap your judgement for compassion.

No @MeanWeedratStew you did not fail! Please don’t think that. You did the best you could at that moment In time, that is not failure. In fact I do not think we should talk about breastfeeding in terms of success and failure, unfortunately threads like this and SM posts just like the one OP wants to altruistically post to educate the masses plays right into this success/ failure dichotomy. It’s why you feel like crap reading this, and why I felt like crap having to combi feed DD for the first weeks of life.

Your child/ children are safe and loved and ultimately that is what they know/ will remember and what really matters. My mother breastfed me til I was 3 and then went on to physically and emotionally abuse me, it’s not the epitome of motherhood as these threads make you feel.

I’m sorry you weren’t supported in your infant feeding goals and now that you feel upset! Hugs

@MeanWeedratStew I’m sorry you had a terrible time. But in a way your post just proves the OP’s point. She’s effectively saying you can’t say anything positive about bf without some people seeing it as an attack, and that indeed seems to be the way you’ve taken it.

I had recurrent miscarriage - lost 4 babies and had a very traumatic time of it. My body essentially rejected the babies. I had to take a host of horrible drugs with horrible side effects and experience many traumatic procedures plus awful treatment by medical staff. Yet I do not get upset when people talk about their easy conceptions. Good for them. I didn’t have the best route to having my baby but that’s just life and luck. I know it’s not directly comparable but I don’t think the fact that many people struggle to breastfeed and feel sad that they couldn’t should mean that people aren’t allowed to be positive about breastfeeding generally.

@pollypokcet failure to thrive? Yes infant mortality in older babies was often disease ect but that would have been after breastfeeding and weaning had taken place. In those initial few weeks failure to thrive which is often malnutrition. Infection or disease may be listed as reason for death but if under nuritoused the baby wouldn't have been able to fight the infection as well as a baby getting plenty.

Also back 100 150 years a go if a woman couldn't breastfeed a neighbour often would do it for her.

Most of the academic studies on the benefits of breastfeeding are pretty flawed and conflate income, education, number of parents in household, general health of the family with benefits from breastfeeding alone. I say this as someone who breastfeeds but they numbers and benefits are wildly over estimated.

I don't think telling people the benefits of breastfeeding (whatever benefits you want to pick out) is the way forward, I think daily midwife visits for the first 3 or 4 weeks, referral to proper IBCLC support and pre-birth mandatory classes are as is much more focus on combi-feeding and introducing a bottle and/or dummy early on and getting rid of the lies about nipple confusion (which is disproven). Also identification of tongue ties and treatment of reflux and weight drops in the first few weeks is terrible in the UK. If these issues were identified in the first week of life and supported, more people would carry on.

If women knew it didn't have to be all or nothing when it comes to BFing I think more people would have a go or carry on but I found midwives knew nothing about combi feeding as an option. We are also taught nothing about pumping and how you need to be fitted for the right size flanges on your pump, or all the ways to take care of your health and your nipples etc. I feel that there needs to be more education for family members on how to care for a post-partum mother (however she chooses to feed) because if the house and her needs aren't taken care of, how can she heal let alone feed another being? If you don't have a partner or family member helping with food or looking after other children it's next to impossible to get BFing established. In countries with higher BFing rates, they have a 'village' mentality whether from family or the state.

I've breastfed my daughter every day of her life and given her one bottle of formula a day and yet I don't count in the breastfeeding statistics because I don't exclusively BF her. When you see the stats of how many babies are breastfed at 6 months, if you combi feed any formula at all, you aren't included in that figure. I wonder if they changed the collection methodology how our BFing stats would look.

[quote HarrietM87]@MeanWeedratStew I’m sorry you had a terrible time. But in a way your post just proves the OP’s point. She’s effectively saying you can’t say anything positive about bf without some people seeing it as an attack, and that indeed seems to be the way you’ve taken it.

I had recurrent miscarriage - lost 4 babies and had a very traumatic time of it. My body essentially rejected the babies. I had to take a host of horrible drugs with horrible side effects and experience many traumatic procedures plus awful treatment by medical staff. Yet I do not get upset when people talk about their easy conceptions. Good for them. I didn’t have the best route to having my baby but that’s just life and luck. I know it’s not directly comparable but I don’t think the fact that many people struggle to breastfeed and feel sad that they couldn’t should mean that people aren’t allowed to be positive about breastfeeding generally.[/quote]
There's a huge difference in saying something positive about BF, and post after post implying that breast milk is some sort of magic charm, without which your baby is disadvantaged and at risk, and that women stating they can't BF could really, if they just tried hard enough. Not to mention that anyone with even the meanest intellect will have grasped that BF is A Good Thing, so reiterating what A Good Thing it is adds nothing of real value to anyone. I understand why BF mothers may want to share information that affirms their decision as encouragement or in self congratulation, but to me the appropriate audience for that are other BF mothers.

Yes I get that @5128gap but I don’t think the OP was about “sharing post after post implying breast milk was a magic charm”, but rather just talking about it. My personal experience is that you can’t even mention breastfeeding without someone getting upset about it. Eg I recently returned to work after mat leave and we had a session for new returners to feed back on how to improve conditions at work for parents who have just come back from leave. I mentioned in that context that I was finding it helpful to be able to wfh (post covid) as it meant I could feed my daughter during my breaks when my DH is looking after her, and someone said that not everyone can bf and it’s a privilege and basically just shut me down in front of the whole group. It was just bizarre. It’s clearly very raw for some people but I don’t think the solution to that is to never mention it.

@HarrietM87

Yes I get that *@5128gap* but I don’t think the OP was about “sharing post after post implying breast milk was a magic charm”, but rather just talking about it. My personal experience is that you can’t even mention breastfeeding without someone getting upset about it. Eg I recently returned to work after mat leave and we had a session for new returners to feed back on how to improve conditions at work for parents who have just come back from leave. I mentioned in that context that I was finding it helpful to be able to wfh (post covid) as it meant I could feed my daughter during my breaks when my DH is looking after her, and someone said that not everyone can bf and it’s a privilege and basically just shut me down in front of the whole group. It was just bizarre. It’s clearly very raw for some people but I don’t think the solution to that is to never mention it.

That seems an extreme reaction on your colleagues behalf to a necessary comment with reference to your work, so its not really the same. What we're talking about here would be the equivalent of you pinning an article on the benefits of BF to the staff notice board.

Wow. I don't get why people are so sensitive out breastfeeding specifically (there's so many things we don't get to do, so many life choices others may have made that we didn't) - and especially to that extent @HarrietM87

What we're talking about here would be the equivalent of you pinning an article on the benefits of BF to the staff notice board.

I don't see what's wrong with that either? If you're not interested, don't read it. I don't get it.

Unless you think breastfeeding is superior, or desperately wanted to do it, why get wound up? Even then, you can't expect people to tread on eggshells over every topic.

I guess that’s where there’s a bit of ambiguity in the OP - I read it that sharing the post was an example but it was about whether you’re allowed to say anything positive about bf more generally.

The work thing was really extreme but I do find I don’t ever say anything good about bf in a group of mums (eg I stopped myself from saying recently how it was so helpful being able to calm my daughter after her vaccinations with bf) when we were talking about the 1 year ones, because I felt like that might upset those who hadn’t bf. There’s sometimes a feeling that you have to tread on eggshells in a way that I wouldn’t do if mentioning some other parenting decision (eg the positives of baby led weaning or sleep training).

Of course with a group of parents who have all already made their feeding decisions it’s all irrelevant anyway, but I wonder whether that kind of censoring does have a cultural impact more widely.

Oh and reading back over my last post I realise I’ve said feeding “decisions” and of course I do appreciate it isn’t always a choice.

(Again, terrified I’m going to offend someone there with some hasty language)

@rarge

What we're talking about here would be the equivalent of you pinning an article on the benefits of BF to the staff notice board.

I don't see what's wrong with that either? If you're not interested, don't read it. I don't get it.

Unless you think breastfeeding is superior, or desperately wanted to do it, why get wound up? Even then, you can't expect people to tread on eggshells over every topic.

Theres a huge difference between treading on egg shells and saying and doing things that you know are upsetting to other people, and that serve no real purpose. There are plenty of studies that show that children from higher income households do better, but I doubt anyone would think it appropriate for a wealthy parent to circulate them.

There are plenty of studies that show that children from higher income households do better, but I doubt anyone would think it appropriate for a wealthy parent to circulate them

Very very very good point.

Where I’m coming from though is that a lot of chat doesn’t really “serve a purpose”, in that you just share experiences and connect with people. Taking the wealthy parent thing - no I wouldn’t share a study on that. (I don’t share studies at all tbh). Nor would I brag about how much money I had in the abstract. But I might refer in passing to a holiday that I’d been on, or an item I was buying my child for their birthday because those are the kinds of things people usually talk about with their friends.

Or to go back to the bf context, sharing bf studies isn’t acceptable, but can you say you really enjoy breastfeeding your child? Is it “acceptable” for me to say I was relieved to be able to comfort her with bf after her jabs or when she’s ill? I think there’s already been chat on this thread about whether it’s offensive to someone to say you’re “proud” of breastfeeding, and tbh I can’t remember where it came out, but though I do feel proud of myself, I’d also be really wary of saying something like that in case I offended people. Which is a shame really because it’s hard being new parent and I think we should be able to celebrate anything we think worth celebrating.

@DingleyDel, thanks for the link to that lecture; I listened to it. Very interesting and concerning in equal measure!

Wow. I don't get why people are so sensitive out breastfeeding specifically (there's so many things we don't get to do, so many life choices others may have made that we didn't) - and especially to that extent

But people are sensitive about many other things that someone else might find not a big deal.
With breastfeeding specifically I think it should be obvious why many UK women would be sensitive around the subject given that the majority plan to breastfeed and a minority manage to establish it long term. Someone confidently planning to formula feed and someone who breastfed for as long as they wanted to are clearly in the minority which means that the majority may have complex feelings or issues surrounding infant feeding. Me and many women on this thread have shared our experiences and why it makes us feel this way.
Personally though, I do think women and parents are judged relentlessly for all of their parenting decisions. Its just some are more controversial than others. For as much as some women will be judged for formula feeding there will likely be another being judged for breastfeeding for ‘too long’.

I think there is a difference between being positive about breastfeeding in and of itself, and continually stating is it superior to formula feeding. Once the comparison to formula feeding is brought in, as a big mother saying how big is superior, you are directly telling formula feeding mothers that you have done better for your child then they have done for theirs.

Of course that will cause upset, and it doesn’t generally need to be said.

@Teacupsandtrainers

Wow. I don't get why people are so sensitive out breastfeeding specifically (there's so many things we don't get to do, so many life choices others may have made that we didn't) - and especially to that extent

But people are sensitive about many other things that someone else might find not a big deal.
With breastfeeding specifically I think it should be obvious why many UK women would be sensitive around the subject given that the majority plan to breastfeed and a minority manage to establish it long term. Someone confidently planning to formula feed and someone who breastfed for as long as they wanted to are clearly in the minority which means that the majority may have complex feelings or issues surrounding infant feeding. Me and many women on this thread have shared our experiences and why it makes us feel this way.
Personally though, I do think women and parents are judged relentlessly for all of their parenting decisions. Its just some are more controversial than others. For as much as some women will be judged for formula feeding there will likely be another being judged for breastfeeding for ‘too long’.

Yeah, I still don't get it. Do we tell parents to never post their kids on social media or talk about them in case someone is upset by it? How babies are fed does not matter.

The common example is also Mother's Day. I lost a sibling when we were both quite young, but I don't get myself down every time someone mentions their sibling.

Unpopular opinion: but this topic isn't something to get worked up about. It may be annoying to hear someone who's evangelical about breastfeeding, but it's just not that deep. I just don't get why this is the topic that is so contentious. Whether one uses one type of milk... or another.