To think the Government don't understand where "the north" actually is?

[AdamRyan]

Government have scrapped the Leeds extension of HS2, so it now goes to Manchester. There will be faster trains to Sheffield as well. This apparently is to enable levelling up of "The North"
www.bbc.co.uk/news

AIBU to think Manchester and Sheffield are barely The North in an English context, let alone when you add in Scotland? What exactly does this do for the most deprived communities in the North East and the Lakes?

I'm so annoyed, the North of the UK just constantly gets left behind :(

HS2 is and always has been a massive waste of money. It should have been indefinitely put on hold last year at the latest.
Years ago I saw a list of all the rail projects outside of London that could have been funded for the HS2 budget, like improving connectivity between Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield. Electrification. Reopening rail lines. Trams.
But the government (not just this one) has always preferred big projects vs lots of little ones that would actually benefit far more people.

By the way, I've enjoyed using high speed rail to travel to Berlin and Marseille to/from London (changing in Paris or Brussels). I just wish that the journey from my home to London was high speed as well. In six years time I'll be able to get from Crewe to London in an hour. Hopefully electrification will speed up the journey from home to Crewe too. It's about time that the UK joined the modern world.

What's the transport network like in those countries? My bug bear with HS2 is that it's so much money for such a limited travel route when the rest of the network system, and public transport in general, is so dire in much of this country.

@Charliealphatangorara

I agree to a point. I live in the south west (actual south west ie Devon/ Cornwall not south west of the Midlands - a bug bare of mine!) Here if there are strong winds and a high tide then all trains stop at Exeter. That's a huge area cut off from the rail network at least a few times a year. Nothing has even been suggested by the gov to improve this and yet those "in the North" have billions invested in order to make an already usable service half an hour or so faster. I can understand your frustrations if you are still miles from the biggest cities in the North.

Yep. We don’t exist.

@Ifailed

Officially, the North of England is made up of: Cheshire, Cumbria, County Durham, East Riding of Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Lancashire, Merseyside, Northumberland, North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear and West Yorkshire, plus the unitary authority areas of North Lincolnshire and North East Lincolnshire.

And Hartlepool, also a unitary authority.

@user0176

It's weird how the Midlands hasnt been more sexed up. Manchester got a massive clean up, Liverpool had a huge makeover, Sheffield got glammed up. Leeds I think they could really do more with. But the Midlands is right there basically on the doorstep to all important London but just hasnt been properly rebranded. I know they have done a lot of work on Birmingham but still nobody wants to go there in the same way they do the northern cities. And what's going on with Nottingham? It's really lagging. Other than that I cant think of any other Midlands cities that are really very evocative. The Midlands is definitely the culturally forgotten part of the UK in terms of sex appeal.

Because the Midlands doesn't feel sorry for itself, it doesn't make a song and dance about being forgotten etc so there's less political incentive to demonstrate money being spent in that area. I think at least!

The Midlands is the main beneficiary of HS2 - the first part should do wonders for Birmingham. Birmingham has had tons of investment in recent times and beat other northern cities to the upcoming Commonwealth Games.

What's it lacking exactly?

@Porcupineintherough

"Sheffield got glammed up"

It really hasn't. A few areas of the city centre have been improved, meanwhile others are still semi derelict and declining. If you were bring charitable you could call it a work in progress.

I think Sheffield gets forgotten about.

The problem in recent times has been regional capitals and centralisation. Big cities like Hull, Sheffield and Bradford have been neglected as Leeds is the go to place for Yorkshire. Manchester is seen as the be all and end all in terms of the north west. Birmingham in terms of the Midlands. Newcastle in terms of the north east.

@user0176

By the way, I've enjoyed using high speed rail to travel to Berlin and Marseille to/from London (changing in Paris or Brussels). I just wish that the journey from my home to London was high speed as well. In six years time I'll be able to get from Crewe to London in an hour. Hopefully electrification will speed up the journey from home to Crewe too. It's about time that the UK joined the modern world.

What's the transport network like in those countries? My bug bear with HS2 is that it's so much money for such a limited travel route when the rest of the network system, and public transport in general, is so dire in much of this country.

Parts of the French network could be better. SNCF charges the regional governments for providing local services and then runs them at its own convenience, rather than to the benefit of the passenger. But that's just a question of management. There's not a fixed pot of money marked "rail investment" which was all being swallowed up by HS2, it is possible to invest in other schemes alongside it.

The full route of HS2 would have provided much better services between the North East and the West Midlands. Current journey times and capacity are shocking, Birmingham to Leeds currently takes two hours, HS2 would have slashed that to 1:09. It also frees up much capacity on the routes going into various conurbations which any improvement in local services would have depended upon. The (now mostly shelved) NPR line between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds which would have provided those East-West improvements posters here are demanding relied upon HS2 infrastructure for much of its route. Losing that East-West line is a real blow for freight because there are no spare paths across the Pennines, some freight trains have to take very circuitous routes as a result.

On the plus side, despite rumours to the contrary I see that the Golborne chord has been retained (despite very strong efforts by the Treasury to ditch it). It is essential to the Anglo-Scottish services. We really need to lower the London - Edinburgh/Glasgow time down to less than three hours in order to better compete with air travel (COP26 etc.). There isn't really enough capacity south of Wigan on existing lines.

Everywhere north of London is the north. And the Uk is actually London. No where else ever seems to matter

I’m in the SE and even I can see how shit transport links are. You can go up the west side of the country ( obviously no further south than Birmingham) or drive on a motorway from the M25. Otherwise you might as well go to to Europe for the all coherent transport links anything further than Hertfordshire. .

As an aside, Lincolnshire! I always thought this was north north ( farming country, cheap houses). Was surprised it really usn’t.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Its simple.

Theres the South South. Like Cornwall and Devon. Where no one lives but people holiday.

Then there's the South.. London and surrounding counties where People Live

Then there's the Country... the home counties, Norfolk etc where you have your Second Home.

Then there's the Midlands. Mills, mines etc.

Yorkshire. A country in its own right.

Finally The North. Think there's dragons?

You seem to have forgotten the North West. No worries. Forget about the textile industry and the start of the industrial revolution eh? Just credit the Midlands instead. Are you geography advisor to the government by any chance?

@ToykotoLosAngeles

“MrsJamPanMan
@ToykotoLosAngeles
For me, the line goes through Stoke.

Which of the six towns are in the north? Just asking.
All of them, sarcy. It's a big fat line.”

Ok, but I’m not sure the native Stokies would agree.

@Boood

I think it’s worth mentioning, for anyone in Leeds feeling aggrieved, that I don’t know anyone in Manchester who sees any benefit in HS2. We’re going to have years of noise and disruption while it’s being built, for the very dubious return of shaving about 20 minutes off the journey to London, which none of us need to make any more because business travel is pretty much a thing of the past. It will benefit people who decide to work in London and live up here, keeps their London salaries and fucking up our housing market with the additional buying power they’ve built up over the years. I really don’t think you are losing out by not having that. We are all losing out by not getting better lines between Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds, though. We desperately need them.

Not really about shaving 20 minutes off a journey to London. More about freeing up capacity on existing line so local trains don't have to share the line with high speed trains and wait for them at bottlenecks causing delays. Also more capacity for freight trains thereby taking trucks off the motorways.

@BarstewardofNorthstead I had to look up the song on YouTube, never heard it before 😂 and the band burnt a million pounds cash 😱

Yorkshire. A country in its own right.

But does Yorkshire even exist though? 😆😉

Am Londoner and wish so much more than anything the north wherever people say it is or anywhere else south north east or west had what London had instead of London.

Wish London had been left behind. Cos left behind meant support and help for domestic violence and chance of safe rehousing.

You don't get way out in London except murder, suicide, or early death from stress and physical injury bad health.

Is very bad in London for disabled cos you not allowed a safe home and is very bad for domestic violence victim's cos very bad support.

No support for many of us and is borough postcode lottery including closed waiting lists. Was in refuge in the north. In what people say left behind area. Was support for domestic violence there and was adult safeguarding for vulnerable adults and was safe rehousing for if you from there.

Was referred to my London home area social services when left refuge and they don't care don't give shit even if risk of murder. Is worse thing in world being from London.

People seeing this think maybe I should go back north but can't cos they made me feel unwelcome like was Londoner stealing local woman's place. Not all of them was very kind ones too but support worker was like that and thinking what all you think that all rich in London. Cos instead of helping with rehousing like she did with the other women she told me to ask very elderly unwell parents who used to be violent to sell their house to buy me one. They can't even if wanted to cos ill and old and need care home.

Also is cos have lost everything. Lost health, work, friends, youth, confidence, happiness, dignity, hope. All have left is wizard of Oz thing of home need familiar cos only thing left. So no way out of domestic violence in London.

Wish had been London left behind cos my experience of left behind place was a place with help and support for disabled and domestic violence and safe rehousing. London is being beaten and raped or being homeless merry go round years of temporary often dangerous with ex prisoners including sometimes mixed sex and often violent maybe someone else's abuser all of you housed together.

Was told about a housing scheme a specialist disability housing association by a domestic violence helpline worker. They cover nearly every area except London. Is no help for Londoners. Wish London had been left behind cos left behind means safe homes, and support and help for disabilities and domestic violence.