To think the Government don't understand where "the north" actually is?

[AdamRyan]

Government have scrapped the Leeds extension of HS2, so it now goes to Manchester. There will be faster trains to Sheffield as well. This apparently is to enable levelling up of "The North"
www.bbc.co.uk/news

AIBU to think Manchester and Sheffield are barely The North in an English context, let alone when you add in Scotland? What exactly does this do for the most deprived communities in the North East and the Lakes?

I'm so annoyed, the North of the UK just constantly gets left behind :(

If nobody can agree where the bloody North of England is on here then how is Boris going to be able to?

Hilarious

The south will stop lumping everything above Oxford in as ‘the North’ when the North stops lumping everything else as ‘the South’ 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think England needs autonomy like Wales and Scotland. The assembly should sit in Birmingham. London would make all the decisions about the UK as a whole but Birmingham would make decisions about England, school funding, town planning etc. Disclaimer: I haven't thought this through.

I consider the North to be anything above the point of Wales, the Midlands to be anything at the same level as Wales, the South to be anything below Wales

But it’s subjective isn’t it really depending on where you live.

@AlphabetAerobics

YANBU - but this is not just politics - it’s evident enough right here across these forums.

I’m 3 times as far north from Manchester than Manchester is from London. In the last few weeks I’ve been told it’s IMPOSSIBLE it’s getting dark before 4pm.

Well, you can't reason with stupid, sadly.

If I was 5 miles further south I'd be in the sea, but even I know how quickly sunrise/sunset times vary as you head north, and how the difference is greater at different times of the year.

I used to know someone who grew up on Yell, and she told me that in midsummer it barely gets properly dark and that in midwinter it barely gets properly light.

I’m in Lancashire who would have guessed
We are definitely in the North although I’m usually more specific and say I live in the North west
I’ve also lived and worked in London and the South East there is definitely a big divide financially - access to government funding, poorer services including NHS but I don’t feel like a victim I choose to live here
What we should be discussing is equality I would not expect to receive poorer treatment because I’m female so why should I get it because of where I live

@JollyJoon

In fairness though I once saw a documentary, can't remember where it was set, maybe Kent or Essex or somewhere, and was really shocked to see the poverty there. It was people living in basically what looked like caravan parks on the coast, but these were their actual houses. Inside them, it was dismal. Lots of stories of addiction. Normally when we think 'Kent' we think posh manors. Apparently Somerset is really bad too, So maybe just as southerners can be ignorant about the north (you want to see some of the manors in Cheshire...), northerners can be very ignorant about the south too.

I was quite shocked when I went to Brighton too. It basically felt like London in the centre, but you realise that there is no real social mixing in the bars and clubs there. Then when you go out to places like Whitehawk, you realise it's very segregated, and even in places like Sussex, there is poverty everywhere.

I think the difference is that those places exist in northern regions too, but our cities and supposedly affluent areas have nowhere near the level of investment of London and the SE in particular. If the rail links between Brighton and London or Reading and London, for example, were anything like as shit as between Manchester and Liverpool or Manchester and Leeds, for example, there would be outrage. And within regions the public transport investment is a fraction of what other areas benefit from. People who live in Greater London have no idea how much better their public transport options are than for those who live in the northern city regions, and those should be like-for-like comparisons. It’s not like we’re comparing rural backwaters with London and expecting the same, we’re talking about major city regions with developed urban areas.

Wholly agree there’s crushing poverty in poorly-connected coastal areas, but that’s a different issue.

[quote Glassofshloer]@ColinTheKoala well you call us softies but we’re not the ones on here complaining 😕 I live in the south west & we are more deprived than you are[/quote]
Are you sure you’re not complaining? Because it really sounds like you are. I’m not suggesting you don’t have good cause to (although much of the SW is rural so it’s a different complaint IMO) - but why is your criticism of the Northern regions for trying to make a case for more investment and not of Westminster for not devolving more resources to the SW?

@RobinPenguins

That's true. Good point. On the plus side I just checked train prices for Brighton to London and then Manchester to Liverpool leaving now with no rail cards and the former is much, much more expensive.

why is your criticism of the Northern regions for trying to make a case for more investment and not of Westminster for not devolving more resources to the SW?

Because the North shouts the loudest & therefore hogs the attentions of Westminster when it comes to the ‘levelling up’ stuff. The North has loads going for it - much cheaper houses, gorgeous countryside, a good network of relatively close large cities meaning it’s easier to get a job & stay close to family at the same time. Wages are low but the money goes further.

But the ‘poor, neglected’ North label has stuck & therefore other places won’t get a look in.

Then you get threads like this complaining about the generic use of ‘North’ but complaining about ‘the South’ like we are a homogenous mass as well 😂

@JollyJoon

I'm from Sheffield and I get what you mean, to me Sheffield is only really where the north begins, its not the "deep north". Feel.sorry for Newcastle and co, they always seem to be forgotten.

A colleague of mine thought Scotland started as soon as you got north of Newcastle. He had no idea that there was miles and miles of east coast before you get to the border.

My Yorkshire-born friend maintains that Sheffield only counts as north because it happens to be in Yorkshire, and really it belongs in the Midlands. She comes from what she claims is "proper" Yorkshire, about 10 miles south of Darlington.

I don't understand HS2, it seems so ridiculously expensive for the little it gains, it seems to me it would make sense to use the money upgrading the rail network across the country rather than an arbitrary fast line in very limited locations (that will likely cost the Earth and therefore less tangible benefit to the majority). Leeds and Manchester are already pretty accessible to the south by rail?

I think the north is above the midlands. So east and west midlands (Birmingham, Nottingham etc) are midlands and anything north of that is 'the north'

It’s in Westeros isn’t it?

[quote JollyJoon]@BethAfra
That's not true. Northerners know they are northern. Its only southerners who really struggle with the boundary.[/quote]
I don't struggle with it, and I'm a southerner!

I couldn't for the life of me tell you where the south-east becomes the south-west though. Bournemouth, maybe? Dorchester?

@LakieLady
Urgh, she's just jealous because she comes from the only part of Yorkshire that doesnt have a proper city.

@LadyCatStark I remember that thread!! So much utter nonsense.

I think this is a great opportunity for me to shoehorn in my favourite poem. May I?

The Rolling English Road
By G. K. Chesterton

Before the Roman came to Rye or out to Severn strode,
The rolling English drunkard made the rolling English road.
A reeling road, a rolling road, that rambles round the shire,
And after him the parson ran, the sexton and the squire;
A merry road, a mazy road, and such as we did tread
The night we went to Birmingham by way of Beachy Head.

I knew no harm of Bonaparte and plenty of the Squire,
And for to fight the Frenchman I did not much desire;
But I did bash their baggonets because they came arrayed
To straighten out the crooked road an English drunkard made,
Where you and I went down the lane with ale-mugs in our hands,
The night we went to Glastonbury by way of Goodwin Sands.

His sins they were forgiven him; or why do flowers run
Behind him; and the hedges all strengthening in the sun?
The wild thing went from left to right and knew not which was which,
But the wild rose was above him when they found him in the ditch.
God pardon us, nor harden us; we did not see so clear
The night we went to Bannockburn by way of Brighton Pier.

My friends, we will not go again or ape an ancient rage,
Or stretch the folly of our youth to be the shame of age,
But walk with clearer eyes and ears this path that wandereth,
And see undrugged in evening light the decent inn of death;
For there is good news yet to hear and fine things to be seen,
Before we go to Paradise by way of Kensal Green.

@LakieLady

Anywhere west of Southampton. We have to keep the gorgeous New Forest!

I think the north is above the midlands. So east and west midlands (Birmingham, Nottingham etc) are midlands and anything north of that is 'the north'

This is my opinion, I'm in the midlands and don't identify with the problems touted as southern or northern. I know the midlands aren't really seen as aspirational areas of the UK by any stretch but I really feel like we have the best of both worlds in many respects, easily connected to London and the business benefits that brings whilst benefitting from the cheaper cost of living that comes the more north you go. I can be in London in an hour, but I have a large detached house on a large plot in a nice area for £350k.

@user0176 I only know a little of the Midlands but from what I can see you’re a bit like us here in SW - totally overlooked in the clash of the titans between London and the North

@Itsnotallaboutyoubaby

I live in the midlands. Family from London consider us to live in the North… I consider the North, Yorkshire and upward. I actually love the North.

I'm in the Midlands. Lost track of the amount of times I've said "I'm not from the North!" or "I'm not from the South!"

@DoormatBob

I'm in Cumbria and I can't support this idea of a Northern Assembly as I believe that will just focus money into Manchester/Liverpool.

I just think to myself life could be worse. I could live in Manchester, Liverpool or London!

Funds will always be spent more readily in the more densely populated areas, because that is where the greatest number of people will benefit. However, the old standard spending assessment (the formula central government used to allocate funds to local government) also recognised that it costs more to deliver services in sparsely populated areas and included a low-density element that gave an additional amount to rural areas.

God knows how they do it now, and the central government grant is dwindling year on year, so it probably doesn't affect much.

A lot of people don’t know where the north of England is, disturbing as it’s really not that difficult!!

Fucksake. I only needed the Leeds line to visit my family. Well, guess I'll never use HS2 then